[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: being reported to your school
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Tue Aug 3 18:13:02 UTC 2010
Because a child and a guide dog are not the same. A guide dog is a
mobility tool, a child is not.
I used to frequent a bar where we'd drink and sing bawdy songs, my
favorite being one about Alice and a guy who was very in love with her.
When it came time for the chorus, we'd all shout "Alice, who the f*** is
Alice!"
It was great fun. There is no way I'd expose my daughter to that not
given her current age. My guide dog at the time had no issues with it.
Likewise, I will expose my kid to things I wouldn't ever do with a guide
dog. My daughter really wants to "take Mommy and we go in the water and
swim with dolphins". I'm hoping we can do that some day, and have told
her that we need to learn to swim first. I am hoping we can swim with
dolphins at some point. There is no way I'd do this with aguide dogIn
other words, a child and a dog are very different. And, unlike a dog, a
child will grow up so you can expose them to different things over time.
One of the people that used to join me at the previously mentioned bar
was... my dad. The only ill effects Dad and I experienced is that
neither of us can hear the name Alice withoutthinking "Alice, who the
f*** is Alice".
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jordan Frances Ortiz
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:57 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: being reported to your school
We've talked about it many times and in many different ways. He's still
intent on thinking that his way is best, and I've kind of given up on
trying to helop him. He knows what i htink and he and I are fine with
that. I know that we can be reported for people seeing things wrong or
not understanding but when someone has been reported more than 30 times
in a 2 year period I feel like something isn't right. I was using this
story as an example of mistreatment of a dog, and if he were just a
owner witha pet I'd feel the same way. I guess I see my guide dog as a
child, and if I wouldn't expose my child to certain thingns why expose
my guide dog?
Jordan
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> Wow, and you are going to acuse this very close friend of abuse ona
> public list? I sure wouldn't want o be him right now. Actually, if I
> were him I'd be talking to alawyer right about now to see what could
be
> done about filing a slander suit against you. I'd also be talking to
the
> school to let them know you were intent on making myl ife a living
hell.
> Ever consider talking to this very close friend? Or rephrasing your
> concerns more honestly, i.e. "I have a friend, he does X andY with his
> dog, what do you all think?" As Rox said, you can't unring the abuse
> bell.
> And, would this guy's behavior toward his dog bother you if he was
> sighted and the dog was a pet? If not, then he may be a jerk, but
isn't
> abusive.
> I still am struggling as to your motive and why you'd treat a very
close
> friend or anybody for that matter in the way you're doing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jordan Frances Ortiz
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: being reported to your school
>
> Oh sorry this guy has been a close friend of mine for 8 years. I like
> everything about him except how he treats his dog sometimes.
>
>
> Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>
>> No, with what you've written,I can't tel if you don't like the guy so
>> are primmed to see abuse everywhere, if you are all gooey about your
>> puppy so are also primmed to see abuse, if you have some skewed
notion
>> of "docile little blind person, I want to own one" or if the guy is
>> truly being abusive.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jordan Frances Ortiz
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:58 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: being reported to your school
>>
>> isn't that what abuse is... if we liked abuse it wouldn't be abuse
>>
> would
>
>> it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Totally agree.
>>> My problem with Jordan's logic is that she is equating abuse to
stuff
>>> she doesn't like. When I read the post about the guy puking on his
>>>
> dog
>
>>>
>>>
>> I
>>
>>
>>> thought "Did this guy not call her "the morning after" and she's now
>>> looking for revenge"?
>>> Then my thought is "How dare the blind guy go out and drink, oh
look,
>>>
>>>
>> he
>>
>>
>>> took his dog with him when he did it, I'll say he's abusing it".
>>> That whole attitude strikes me as paternalistic.
>>> Most people will do dumb things with their dogs not because we have
>>> dogs, but because we're human. WE'll do the same with our spouses,
>>>
> our
>
>>> friends, our kids, our stuff, you name it.
>>> Jordan, a good litness test is "If this guy was sighted and took his
>>>
>>>
>> pet
>>
>>
>>> dog to an outdoor dog-friendly bar or to just a dog-friendly bar,
and
>>> puked on his dog, would you care?"
>>> You are using "That poor puppy" as an excuse to hit the abuse button
>>>
>>>
>> for
>>
>>
>>> behavior you don't like.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of The Pawpower Pack
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] being reported to your school
>>>
>>> I would agree that throwing up on one's dog is hardly ideal.
>>>
> However,
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> sometimes stuff happens. I take my dog to bars when I go. My dog
is
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> there if I drink alcohol. Granted, I'm at the point in my life,
>>>
> where
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> time and experience has taught me that drinking until one throws up
>>>
> is
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> hardly a good idea, for a number of reasons. However I don't think
>>> taking my dog to the bar and drinking is a crime. If someone saw my
>>>
>
>
>>> dog at a bar and saw me drinking and having a good time with friends
>>>
>
>
>>> and they accused me of abuse, I'd be pretty upset.
>>> People are different, they have different lifestyles. Some dogs
>>>
> don't
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> like bars and the noise does bother them. If someone had a dog like
>>>
>
>
>>> that, I would hope they'd use their judgement and not take the dog.
>>>
>
>
>>> However if the dog is like mine and doesn't really care, then who's
>>> business is it of anyone's to say I should, or should not have my
dog
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> at a bar?
>>> Also if someone threw up on their dog because they were ill, is that
>>>
>
>
>>> still abuse, or is it the drinking plus the vomiting that is the
>>>
>>>
>> issue?
>>
>>
>>> I drink, I go to bars. I live in New Orleans and my dog goes on
>>> Bourbon street with me and I have a hard time thinking this is
>>>
>>>
>> abusive.
>>
>>
>>> My dog gets fed, loved, medical care. She works has toys, other dog
>>>
>
>
>>> friends and I spend lots of time with her. Does the fact that
>>>
> someone
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> drinks alcohol with their dog at a bar then negate all of the other
>>> things?
>>> I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly curious.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rox and the Herbal HenchHounds
>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> "It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to
>>>
> point
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a
half-
>>>
>
>
>>> wit, and the emperor remains an emperor."-- Neil Gaiman
>>> http://www.pawpowercreations.com/retreat.html
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> AIM: Brissysgirl
>>>
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>>
>>
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