[nagdu] the find command

Wed Aug 4 02:16:20 UTC 2010

Oooh!  Ideas!  /grin/

Only the current problem I have with finding stuff when I'm with Mitzi is
that her tags came off somewhere, never to be heard from again.  So I put a
bell on her collar finally, which helped until it took off to meet up with
the tags on some sunny beach somewhere.  Sigh.  If I don't hear my dog
jingle, I don't do very well at finding what she's showing me, apparently.
/smile/  It wouldn't hurt to review towels and soap, though.

Last time we used a restroom in a store, there was a great deal of
confusion.  I needed to find it, but we had gone in after DD did, and I
wanted to touch in with him first.  I asked her to find him, but she showed
me the restroom first.  Then she had a bit of trouble homing on where to
look for him because it's his favorite store, so he meanders about touching,
well, everything.  /grin/  Still, we finally tracked him down, then went
back to the restroom -- on command this time.  I knew there was a restroom
there, because it was back in kind of a hallway and she only shows me those
when there's a restroom or elevator.  I knew there was no elevator, only for
some reason I didn't know where to look for the way into the restroom...
Wonder if it was lack of jingle, thinking back.

Anyway, I felt along the wall, somehow managing to miss what I was looking
for.  I was fairly distracted by that point, so I guess was doing more
frantic flailing than proper search technique.  I started muttering to
myself about the thing in the wall that I was looking for.

So we went to the door to outside and stood there, while I thought vaguely,
"Huh?"  /lol/  I urged her to find the restroom, so she took my right back,
where I tried doing a better job of feeling around where I knew the door
should be, kinda muttering to myself about what I was looking for.

So we went to look out the door again...  /lol/  It took three times before
I remembered to keep my mouth shut while I was looking for the restroom
door.  To her, a phrase like "where's the door" translates to "find the
door" I guess, and to her that means the store door.

That'll teach me to talk to myself instead of using proper technique!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of AnnaLisa Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:05 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] the find command

Hi Steve,

In answer to your question, isn't praise enough of a reward?  Yes, a lot of
times, but I'll tell you my experience teaching Sunny to find trash cans,
just as one example, before and after the clicker.  Before, I would ask her
to find the trash can, sometimes she would, sometimes not, even if I praised
her like mad when she did.  It was really hit or miss.  Add the clicker and
treat along with the praise, and now she finds it every time, spot on, even
if it's a trash can we don't visit very often or a trash can that even looks
familiar, whether she gets the treat or not, though she always gets the
praise.  So for Sunny, the click and treat was the big motivator in getting
her to do as I asked, and it, pardon the pun, really clicked for her.  I
find using the clicker to teach Sunny new things or to refine skills is so
much better than the jerk and praise technique.  She will do just about
anything to earn that click and treat, offering all sorts of behaviors to
try and figure out what I want her to do.  Like Rox and others have said,
it's great to see them actually thinking and trying to figure out what it is
you want of them, instead of them being afraid of the repercussions if they
don't do what you ask.

Oh, speaking of teaching new skills, was it Catherine who had asked about
finding sinks and such?  This is what I would do.  You start out by putting
your hand on the sink, and have the dog touch your hand, click and treat.
Then you take away the hand and say sink, and have the dog point her nose at
the sink, when she does, click and treat.  Do this a few times to reinforce
it.  Then start slowly backing away and approaching the sink from at first
one step, then two, then three, then from across the room, telling her to
find the sink.  If she doesn't find it, ignore it, no correction, gently
tell her no but good try, then turn her round and rework it till she does.
when she does find it, click, treat and praise like mad. It won't take long
before she gets it.  Just work in tiny increments, gradually working up to
her being able to find it from across a room.  And if you take too big of a
leap, you can always go back and start from the point where she lost the
concept.  That is what they call "back chaining" in operant conditioning.
You start out with the target you want, and work backwards, but the target
is always the end goal.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm by no means an expert in this, but just telling
you how I've learned this from my own experience.  Now all that being said,
I have to teach Sunny how to do this, and to find paper towel dispensers and
bathroom stalls.  We just have to find time and a quiet place to practice.
<smile>  Teaching sink finding at home is a great idea though, because sinks
are pretty much the same wherever you go.

AnnaLisa and Sundance

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