[nagdu] Critical blind people

Wed Aug 4 14:28:35 UTC 2010

Hi Hope,

Finally getting back to this list! Thanks so much for sharing your
techniques- makes perfect sense as I read it- why didn't I think of that? -
Oh well, I'll start on those 2 things today, and keep you posted. Also,
chalk another one up as better technique with the next dog! 

Have a blessed day-

Cathryn (& Abby) 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Hope Paulos
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:38 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

Hi there. I wanted to quickly explain how Itaught my dog to find sinks 
(since that is the easiest thing to work on first. What I did was first put 
her on leash and take her to a sink at home. I tapped it and labeled it" 
sink". Then I'd step a couple of steps back and ask her to "find the sink". 
If she found it and put her nose on it, I'd click/treat.  I'd do this 
several times going the same distance back from the sink. Then I'd slowly 
increase the distance-- clicking/treating when she successfully found it.

As far as the stalls, that basically just meant having her find one specific

stall. I started by teaching her to find the one stall in the University's 
Language Department restroom. I just told her "find inside". She did, I 
clicked/treated. She was then able to generalize quickly without me having 
to do much more than that.  I can go into any  restroom, tell her to "find 
inside" and she'll take me to the largest stall. If it is occupied, she'll 
show me the door, and we'll wait until it's unoccupied.
HTH
Hope and Beignet
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

> oops thought we were talking about food so sorry.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Independent Travel Consultant
> C10-10646
>
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
> skype: angeldn3
>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
> CST-1018299-10
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
>
>> Hope-
>>
>> I missed this response and asked the question again- oops!
>> Thanks for responding- Benyay it is, and blessings on your day!
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Hope Paulos
>> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:42 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>
>> her name is pronounced: ben yay. I'll explain how she finds stalls/sinks
>> when I have a minute. Am running out the door. <smile>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>
>>
>> > Hi Hope-
>> >
>> > Just read your post.  Please tell me how you pronounce your dog's name-
>> > I'm
>> > intrigued.  Also, wondering if you could give me some pointers on how 
>> > you
>> > trained your guide to find the largest stall and sinks. I've not found 
>> > a
>> > good enough way yet. It's a gamble to see if she'll find the stall each
>> > time, and finding the sink is rare.
>> > Either way, thanks for listening.
>> >
>> > Cathryn (& Abby)
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Hope Paulos
>> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:14 PM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>> >
>> > I agree, Jenine. I was at several conventions, and when I told my dog 
>> > to
>> > "find the elevator" (no matter where I was in the particular hotel) 
>> > she'd
>> > immediately take me there. I didn't have to say "left" "right", etc. 
>> > She
>> > automatically took me there. And this could be from  *anywhere* in the
>> > hotel... I also trained her to find the largest stall in the restroom, 
>> > the
>> > sink (restroom) and paper towels (just below the dispenser). Now it's a
>> > matter of teaching her to find/follow lines and not cut in front of
>> > people.
>> > <grin>
>> > Hope and Beignet
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:59 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>> >
>> >
>> >>I find the "find" command invaluable, and use it often, especially for
>> >>trash
>> >> cans, elevator buttons, stairs, doors, etc.
>> >> Susan & Rhoda
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Jenine Stanley
>> >> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:18 PM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>> >>
>> >> Wow, I'm amazed at how many of you have encountered the sentiment that
>> >> having your dog find common things, like entrances, elevators, etc., 
>> >> is
>> >> too
>> >> hard.
>> >>
>> >> This is not a GDf brag by any means but this concept of using the 
>> >> dog's
>> >> vision and training to help you find things being too much is so 
>> >> foreign
>> >> to
>> >> how I have been taught for the past 20 years that it boggles my mind.
>> >>
>> >> My first group of instructors at GDf told us that we could teach our 
>> >> dogs
>> >> to
>> >> find just about anything if we used the method we were taught and 
>> >> started
>> >> slowly. We were encouraged throughout class to have the dog find 
>> >> things
>> >> and
>> >> finding entrances and exits was part of every day work. Finding 
>> >> stairs,
>> >> elevators, escalators, etc., was as well. During class we have the 
>> >> dogs
>> >> find
>> >> our rooms, not because GDF thinks we can't  but because it does help 
>> >> to
>> >> instill that find command. I use this constantly in hotels where I 
>> >> want
>> >> the
>> >> dog to return to my room.
>> >>
>> >> We, and when I say we, I mean students, teach the dogs to find "my 
>> >> seat"
>> >> which is either an assigned seat in the dining room during class, or 
>> >> any
>> >> seat I might vacate and leave things at, such as in a meeting. I don't
>> >> even
>> >> have to leave my things there necessarily.
>> >>
>> >> The hard part about this type of work is allowing the dog to do it, 
>> >> make
>> >> mistakes and get it right. You do have to offer the dog a little 
>> >> support
>> >> at
>> >> times and not over correct if he or she gets it wrong, but wow, it's a
>> >> way
>> >> of working with a dog that maximizes both of your abilities and if you
>> >> have
>> >> the least problem with hearing or orientation, this skill can be
>> >> invaluable.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I've heard one instructor say that the find command doesn't work 
>> >> because
>> >> people too often misuse it, asking their dogs to find things that 
>> >> aren't
>> >> there or facing one direction and asking the dog to find the door out 
>> >> of
>> >> a
>> >> room without knowing where it is.
>> >>
>> >> My answer to this is that either the people he has seen don't 
>> >> understand
>> >> how
>> >> the command works or aren't reading their dogs well, or the dogs have
>> >> never
>> >> been taught the command and what is expected of them. Dogs and people 
>> >> who
>> >> have been taught the find command and know how to teach it in a 
>> >> variety
>> >> of
>> >> settings, usually get it. I can be facing the back wall of a room and 
>> >> ask
>> >> my
>> >> dog to "find outside." He may turn a couple times or do a circuit of 
>> >> the
>> >> room until he recognizes the door out but he will find it. This is
>> >> especially helpful in large open spaces like exhibit halls.
>> >>
>> >> Now, this year in Dallas, Swap found getting out of the exhibit hall 
>> >> very
>> >> challenging some days. So did my wallet but that's another story. 
>> >> <grin>
>> >> There were often crowds, but not necessarily huge crowds, around the
>> >> entrance so when I asked him to find outside, meaning the way out, he
>> >> would
>> >> do a circuit of the room and end up at a booth we liked, always a
>> >> different
>> >> one, but usually not necessarily close to the exit.
>> >>
>> >> Well, DUH, Jenine, why not try some positive reinforcement when he 
>> >> does
>> >> get
>> >> it? A little food reward paired with the GDF praise "Good outside!"
>> >> worked
>> >> wonders. E
>> >>
>> >> I can't even imagine why other blind people or other handlers would
>> >> criticize using these commands, unless it's for the reasons espoused 
>> >> by
>> >> the
>> >> instructor. If my dog just isn't finding something, chances are it 
>> >> really
>> >> isn't there or he's confused somehow. That's when I can step in and 
>> >> ask
>> >> others for help, just pointing me in the right direction usually works
>> >> but
>> >> sometimes the dog figures out that the human knows best and will 
>> >> default
>> >> to
>> >> that.
>> >>
>> >> The key to really getting the most out of the find command though once
>> >> it's
>> >> been cemented, is to use it. Expect the dog to find things and reward
>> >> appropriately. You also need at times to use other humans to help when
>> >> learning new things to find, like doors, elevators and such in new
>> >> places.
>> >> No big deal though. Some dogs are better at words and finding things 
>> >> than
>> >> others too. I've had the spectrum and even the ones who weren't truly
>> >> word
>> >> oriented were concept and context oriented and caught on quickly.
>> >>
>> >> Jenine Stanley
>> >> jeninems at wowway.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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