[nagdu] Consumer report
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Aug 26 14:01:03 UTC 2010
Cool! That is a great project y'all are doing, BTW.
Free discussion of anything involving the site is always good. /smile/
I've been thinking of the possibilities with the Drupal framework while I'm
working on it so I can lay a foundation for future growth, so it just
tickles me pink to see people throwing out ideas and running with them.
/smile/ Our site is big enough to really need a team effort, and we have a
lot of potential for growth there. With people offering ideas and even the
work to carry them forward, I can play the geek in the corner and
concentrate on making it happen on the internet... Also, it gives me a feel
of how to set about creating a feasible workflow and consider some
guidelines so that we can best for a good core team and also take advantage
of the brain power we have in this group. /smile/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:16 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Tami,
I am definitely not saying it's a bad thing as it should by all means, be a
comprehensive resource for anyone to access whether a member or not. I
will be receiving some very good materials from our speaker for our Service
Dog Seminar that I will pass your way as it compares and contrasts laws
where the use of animals comes into play.
Thanks,
Steve
P.S. I think I got bit by the full-mmoon bug as I felt a slight bit testy
lately/smile!
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:01 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Steve,
As webmaster, now finally getting the tools together to catch up and keep
up, I have a certain authority to make executive decisions. Also, even
though I haven't *quite* (I'm looking at days, not monbths to get some of
the basics done now with what I do have) I am not quite ready to put out a
formal general announcement, I'm reading the discussins of people who are
offering not just ideas but leg work and everything while I refine my plans
for how to go about adding new stuff, etc. I'm also looking for someone
knowledgeable in the laws for the "Rights and Responsibilities" section to
tap. Guess whose name is first on my list there? /grin/ When I'm ready to
do my follow through, you will hear from me!
In general, her's how I see it: When someone raises a new idea that will
add to the information we provide, I will observe and encourage the
discussion. When it comes time to decide what to put up on the site and how
to do it, I will stoart working with the person who is running with it to
find how best to manage the logistics between them and me so that we can
pass material back and forth in the way that works best for both of us.
Cheryl E. is working on some travel materials, as well as some updated
legislation from countries where she books some of her clients. Now Cathryn
and Julie are going for broke on something I'm not ready to think about yet.
Peter Donahue is getting together some audio materials and working his magic
on them. I love it! Gives me motivation in the tedious stuff so I can
catch up! Also, cat herding is easier if the cats round themselves up
first. /grin/
Once and idea begins to come to fruition, I currently have the
decision-making authority to decide what happens on the site itself. Here's
how I see my decision making alternatives:
1) Use the material, heap the one who volunteered with praise and
appreciation, then announce to the list what we've done (bein sure to
remember to give due credit!); OR
2) Work and discuss with the person who volunteered the idea and legwork to
flesh things out, then bring it up to the list members -- or even whole
general membership -- for more discussion and groups dialog and
decision-making; OR
3) Do all of that, then take it to the Board because there is a potential
for controversy or liability or political faux pas or... Something that
could negatively impact the organization (as opposed the group of people in
the organization).
Make sense? That's pretty barebones, but in general, that's how I see it.
We've also decided to start developing a website committee, of which I am
currently chair. So I have voted unanimously to call it something else.
Committees make me crazy. /grin/ That's another thing I will making a
formal announcement about when I'm ready to do my part of the follow
through.
I've come to the conclusion that group discussion there is the first step,
so I'm mentioning it now informally (humor me).
For now, discuss away, but I wish everybody would stop being so interesint
and stuff, since It's hard to not spend so much time reading the list that I
run out of time for the website. /grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:36 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Any chance you would poll the membership on this list serv to see if it is
something they would be interested in? Honestly, I have only read a handful
of responses supporting this.
JMHO,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:50 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Tami and all-
I think that's a "go" YEE HAH!!!
Hmmmmmm. Now what?
Cathryn (& Abby)
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:55 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Sounds reasonable to me. In fact, I like it! /grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 6:31 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Julie and all-
Just a quick note on the third page on owner training- I think it could
easily be a very simple and clean attention-getter. For example, before I
joined this list, I didn't realize that the ADA doesn't require formal guide
dog training from a school. I had no contact with guide dog owners who have
actually trained their own guides. If others are in
similar situations, some introductory info could be very helpful. . . . .
.
Beyond that, why wouldn't contact details for a few resource people-
consenting owner/trainers- be enough- at least for starters? Later, if there
is consensus on expanding that part of the resource, it can be done.
Meanwhile the first 2 pages with policy and survey details permitting
comparison "shopping" of the different schools can be completed and
available to interested readers. Does that sound reasonable?
Your thoughts?
OK- back to studying and domestic details-
Best,
Cathryn (& Abby)
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:52 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Julie and Cathryn,
Would you and anyone else who's interested like to run with this? Honestly,
it's something I've been tearing my hair over trying to get to, and now that
I'm close to that item on my to-do list, I'm tearing my hair during my
rest/thinking breaks about how to get assistance and what to do, because
here's what I would like to see...
Which is exactly what you two are discussing and seem to be ready to run
with! I can live with scratching off future items on my to-do list because
someone else thought of it and done it. /grin/
As for decisions about what goes up on the site and what needs group
discussion first and what needs to go through the Board... I have some
discretion to make executive decisions. Technically, full discretion, which
means I need to be responsible enough to know what to edit or add and what
to put the brakes on because if we're not careful, it will bite us on the
... well, you know what I'm saying.
That's where that part of it stands now, but please do keep discussing it
and giving your intelligent and thoughtful ideas of what you believe should
go through the Board and what should be webmaster (soon to be web team)
discretion...
Oh, and you're volunteering yourselves for the team by opening your mouths.
/grin/ Cheryl E. and I are working out a way that we can incorporate some
of her ideas and materials into the site without crashing one or the other
of two busy women in different time zones. /smile/
One of these days, we (NAGDU) will need to have a procedure and protocol and
all that for member contribution and what all... For now, I'm just in
heaven because people are offering up things so that I can scramble to get
those last bits and pieces toether and... I keep trying to keep this short
so I can get back to dashing between those computers to do those bits and
pieces. Keep up the good work and I love the disucssion.
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:15 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
Cathryn,
I'm not sure if there are specific rules on approval from the board. I
wouldn't feel comfortable with doing such a project without their approval
and endorsement though.
A third info page on owner training could be added, but the amount of
information to explain how step-by-step is probably more than can even be
contained in a single book. So the web page would have to be more of an
overview thing or things to consider if a person is thinking about it.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
> Hi Julie
>
> As one who has been working on a manuscript for eons, far be it from
> me to interfere with your plan, and more power to you!
> So, if I understand correctly, we might proceed with a spread sheet
> with page 1 containing contact info, abbreviations for names,
> policies in certain areas, and spread sheet page 2 containing
> consumer feedback in certain categories.
>
> Does a board of directors or similar body need to approve this? Sorry,
> I'm not up on the actual organization of this group (yet).
>
> Thanks
>
> Cathryn Bonnette
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Julie J
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:04 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Cathryn,
>
> It sounds great! The old NAGDU website did have the names and contact
> info of all the American guide dog schools and some of the
> international ones.
> It would be easy enough to get particular program info like length of
> training and ownership policies for each. Although that will take a
> lot of time.
>
> The survey on consumer satisfaction will take quite a bit of time and
> legwork to complete. I still think it would be an excellent resource.
> If NAGDU as a whole wants to go forward with it, I willing to work on it.
>
> but about the bit on owner training...unfortunately there is currently
> no resource or training manual on how to do such a thing. I'm working
> on writing a book on the topic. I am always happy to answer questions
> and share my perspective on a particular area of owner training.
> However the honest truth is that I am hoping to sell the book not give it
away.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> What about a combined resource as a tool for those seeking to compare
>> guide dog schools for training etc.? One page of the resource could
>> be a list of questions as you listed with cells showing the number of
>> respondents giving each answer with row and column totals.
>> Another page could compare policies of the different schools in areas
>> I listed. The combined effect would show what the schools require and
>> provide according to their policies. The other page would show user
>> responses and satisfaction with performance of the schools. Anyone
>> who reads the resource can decide what is most important to them and
>> choose accordingly.
>> Finally,
>
>> I
>> can envision a separate page with information about owner trained
>> guide dogs. This page could inform readers that the ADA does not
>> require training from a school, and provide information about
>> steps/resources for beginning to train your guide dog, sources for
>> puppies, breeds and considerations, foods, harnesses, leashes,
>> shampoos, grooming supplies, for all the different stages etc. etc.
>> etc.
>>
>> Thus, the final result is a more sophisticated and well informed
>> population of guide dog users who are no longer victims of guide dog
>> schools, guide dog trainers, with all related attitudes toward "the
>> blind" etc. This population will be enabled to take more control of
>> their lives, to start deciding which breed they want, how long they
>> will take off from work for guide dog training, whether they prefer
>> to own their guide dog or not, etc. These are the obvious decisions
>> most adults would expect to make about their own lives. How it has
>> happened that human beings who happen to be blind have allowed some
>> normally sighted "professionals" to maintain inappropriate control is
>> beyond me! It doesn't matter- it needs to stop!
>> JMHO
>>
>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Cathryn,
>>
>> Yes, it does make sense. However GDUI has already done an inventory
>> of all this information. It is very thorough. I believe it was
>> updated in 2006.
>>
>> What I am suggesting is more of a user satisfaction sort of thing.
>> Questions might include:
>> How well do you feel your dog was trained?
>> How well do you feel your dog matches your lifestyle and needs?
>> How well do you feel prepared to handle an access challenge?
>> Does your dog have any health concerns?
>> And so on. A follow up survey could be done a year later to see if
>> the team
>>
>> is still together. There could also be additional questions about
>> satisfaction with follow up services.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>>
>>> Tracy, Marion, and All,
>>>
>>> I think the idea of a consumer survey is excellent.
>>>
>>> A list of questions regarding policies could be presented in a table
>>> or spread sheet format and be very informative to persons who re
>>> considering applying to a guide dog training school for the first
>>> time, to those who are returning after their first guide, to family
>>> and friends of guide dog users, etc. One example of a policy
>>> question is the ownership status of guide dogs upon graduation. The
>>> guide dog schools could be asked for written or electronic copies of
>>> their policies and a table compiled on that basis.
>>> School contact persons, e-mails, telephone numbers, and addresses
>>> could be included in the table and/or there could be links to the
>>> schools' web pages embedded in the table. Potentially, the draft
>>> table could be circulated to the schools for corrections/updates as
>>> needed. This table of policy comparisons could be posted on the
>>> NAGDU home page as a basic resource.
>>> Also, a note included with the table could be a disclaimer that
>>> because school policies can change periodically, interested
>>> applicants should contact the schools directly for copies of their
current policies.
>>> Example policy areas might include, but are not limited to, the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> Entry requirements (check all that apply) Medical report Eye
>>> doctor's report Recommendations (number required if applicable)
>>> Video Orientation and mobility report Etc.
>>>
>>> Local Home training
>>> (Yes/No)
>>>
>>> Guide Dog ownership upon successful graduation (Check one.
>>> School/Guide Dog User)
>>>
>>> And so on.
>>>
>>> Does this make sense to anyone?
>>>
>>> JMHO
>>>
>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:47 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>> I think some kind of consumer report would be great, though I don't
>>> know how it could be done right.
>>> When I read "A Guide to Guide Dog Schools", it made some schools who
>>> have a bad reputation sound great, and some with a good reputation
>>> sound bad, so plain statistics don't really do the job.
>>> Then you have those who think their school can do no wrong, and
>>> those who have an axe to grind from something school X did 20 or 30
>>> years ago.
>>> And
>>> those who are reluctant to talk about problems. I find myself
>>> sometimes hesitant to "air dirty laundry in public." But, if
>>> someone can figure out how to get around those problems, a consumer
>>> report would be a very good thing.
>>> Though of course it would have to be updated from time to time, as
>>> schools' policies and training change.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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