[nagdu] Consumer report

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Thu Aug 26 14:41:21 UTC 2010 

Cathryn,

No problem!  You have the go ahead and I am excited to see what you come up
with!  I was sort of teasing about my not having to make decisions, and
should have remembered that e-mail doesn't always work with some kinds of
humor.  I'm sorry if you felt pressured or criticized.

I really, really like the ideas you've come up with and the quality of your
discussion of it. /smile/

At this point, I would love to see you run with the project as much as you
want to and have time for.  Make the decisions you're comfortable with, or
feel free to toss questions to the list.  If you're concerned about nitty
gritty, you can also write me off list at guidedog at comcast.net for more
discussion about boring logistical details.  /smile/

You're doing something I've been trying to figure out how best to recruit
people to do, then to work with them well so that their efforts bear fruit.
There is no specific protocol, but I am working towards a set of guidelines
so that the growth of the site can be more of a group effort.  What I want
to be able to do is create an environment where all can discuss, some can
do, and things can then happen on the website without anyone going crazy in
the process.  /smil/e  Someone -- currently me -- needs to have primary
control and responsibility for the site and what's on it and how it's
presented.  What I *don't* want is to end up becoming a control freak over
it.  So bear with me as I figure it out, and always offer feedback.  /smile/


Bit of history:  We've always been a single webmaster site, but it has grown
so much as to be beyond the ability of one person to keep up properly,
especially without all the nifty tools and stuff one would have at the
workplace.  /smile/  I've been the webmaster for a couple of years, but have
been hampered by, you know, life, in really getting down to converting the
site to a content management system that will allow for better teamwork.
I'm finally getting that change made and am having a lot of fun doing it.

I am having even more fun watching people throw out ideas and so forth so
that I'm suddenly getting to scramble to keep up.

There's not been a specific protocol or anything formal for adding new
content or updating it, and I'm also trying to build that in...  Anyway,
blah, blah background stuff.

Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas and whatever legwork you continue
to do.  /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:34 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Is there a problem? Even if I make decisions about this, I don't expect to
be the only decision maker. I am not looking for extra volunteer work
either. Thus, if this type of resource is determined to be unnecessary, so
be it.

Best,

Cathryn Bonnette


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:36 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Any chance you would poll the membership on this list serv to see if it is
something they would be interested in?  Honestly, I have only read a handful
of responses supporting this.  

JMHO,
Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:50 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Tami and all-

I think that's a "go" YEE HAH!!!
Hmmmmmm.  Now what?

Cathryn (& Abby)

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:55 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Sounds reasonable to me.  In fact, I like it! /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cathryn Bonnette
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 6:31 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Julie and all-

Just a quick note on the third page on owner training- I think it could
easily be a very simple and clean attention-getter. For example, before I
joined this list, I didn't realize that the ADA doesn't require formal guide
dog training from a school. I had no contact with guide dog owners who have
actually trained their own guides. If others are in
similar situations, some introductory info could be very helpful.   . . . .
.
Beyond that, why wouldn't contact details for a few resource people-
consenting owner/trainers- be enough- at least for starters? Later, if there
is consensus on expanding that part of the resource, it can be done.
Meanwhile the first 2 pages with policy and survey details permitting
comparison "shopping" of the different schools can be completed and
available to interested readers. Does that sound reasonable? 

Your thoughts?

OK- back to studying and domestic details-

Best,

Cathryn (& Abby)
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:52 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Julie and Cathryn,

Would you and anyone else who's interested like to run with this?  Honestly,
it's something I've been tearing my hair over trying to get to, and now that
I'm close to that item on my to-do list, I'm tearing my hair during my
rest/thinking breaks about how to get assistance and what to do, because
here's what I would like to see...

Which is exactly what you two are discussing and seem to be ready to run
with!  I can live with scratching off future items on my to-do list because
someone else thought of it and done it.  /grin/

As for decisions about what goes up on the site and what needs group
discussion first and what needs to go through the Board...  I have some
discretion to make executive decisions.  Technically, full discretion, which
means I need to be responsible enough to know what to edit or add and what
to put the brakes on because if we're not careful, it will bite us on the
... well, you know what I'm saying.

That's where that part of it stands now, but please do keep discussing it
and giving your intelligent and thoughtful ideas of what you believe should
go through the Board and what should be webmaster (soon to be web team)
discretion...

Oh, and you're volunteering yourselves for the team by opening your mouths.
/grin/  Cheryl E. and I are working out a way that we can incorporate some
of her ideas and materials into the site without crashing one or the other
of two busy women in different time zones.  /smile/

One of these days, we (NAGDU) will need to have a procedure and protocol and
all that for member contribution and what all...  For now, I'm just in
heaven because people are offering up things so that I can scramble to get
those last bits and pieces toether and...  I keep trying to keep this short
so I can get back to dashing between those computers to do those bits and
pieces.  Keep up the good work and I love the disucssion.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:15 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report

Cathryn,

I'm not sure if there are specific rules on approval from the board.  I
wouldn't feel comfortable with doing such a project without their approval
and endorsement though.

A third info page on owner training could be added, but the amount of
information to explain how step-by-step is probably more than can even be
contained in a single book.  So the web page would have to be more of an
overview thing or things to consider if a person is thinking about it.

Julie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report


> Hi Julie
>
> As one who has been working on a manuscript for eons, far be it from me to
> interfere with your plan, and more power to you!
> So, if I understand correctly, we might proceed with a spread sheet with
> page 1 containing  contact info, abbreviations for names, policies in
> certain areas, and spread sheet  page 2 containing consumer feedback in
> certain categories.
>
> Does a board of directors or similar body need to approve this? Sorry, I'm
> not up on the actual organization of this group (yet).
>
> Thanks
>
> Cathryn Bonnette
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:04 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Cathryn,
>
> It sounds great!  The old NAGDU website did have the names and contact 
> info
> of all the American guide dog schools and some of the international ones.
> It would be easy enough to get particular program info like length of
> training and ownership policies for each.  Although that will take a lot 
> of
> time.
>
> The survey on consumer satisfaction will take quite a bit of time and
> legwork to complete.  I still think it would be an excellent resource.  If
> NAGDU as a whole wants to go forward with it, I willing to work on it.
>
> but about the bit on owner training...unfortunately there is currently no
> resource or training manual on how to do such a thing.  I'm working on
> writing a book on the topic.  I am always happy to answer questions and
> share my perspective on a particular area of owner training.  However the
> honest truth is that I am hoping to sell the book not give it away.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> What about a combined resource as a tool for those seeking to compare
>> guide
>> dog schools for training etc.? One page of the resource could be a list 
>> of
>> questions as you listed with cells showing the number of respondents
>> giving
>> each answer with row and column totals.
>> Another page could compare policies of the different schools in areas I
>> listed. The combined effect would show what the schools require and
>> provide
>> according to their policies. The other page would show user responses and
>> satisfaction with performance of the schools. Anyone who reads the
>> resource
>> can decide what is most important to them and choose accordingly. 
>> Finally,
>
>> I
>> can envision a separate page with information about owner trained guide
>> dogs. This page could inform readers that the ADA does not require
>> training
>> from a school, and provide information about steps/resources for 
>> beginning
>> to train your guide dog, sources for puppies, breeds and considerations,
>> foods, harnesses, leashes, shampoos, grooming supplies, for all the
>> different stages etc. etc. etc.
>>
>> Thus, the final result is a more sophisticated and well informed
>> population
>> of guide dog users who are no longer victims of guide dog schools, guide
>> dog
>> trainers, with all related attitudes toward "the blind" etc. This
>> population
>> will be enabled to take more control of their lives, to start deciding
>> which
>> breed they want, how long they will take off from work for guide dog
>> training, whether they prefer to own their guide dog or not, etc. These
>> are
>> the obvious decisions most adults would expect to make about their own
>> lives. How it has happened that human beings who happen to be blind have
>> allowed some normally sighted "professionals" to maintain inappropriate
>> control is beyond me! It doesn't matter- it needs to stop!
>> JMHO
>>
>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Cathryn,
>>
>> Yes, it does make sense.  However GDUI has already done an inventory of
>> all
>> this information.  It is very thorough.  I believe it was updated in 
>> 2006.
>>
>> What I am suggesting is more of a user satisfaction sort of thing.
>> Questions might include:
>> How well do you feel your dog was trained?
>> How well do you feel your dog matches your lifestyle and needs?
>> How well do you feel prepared to handle an access challenge?
>> Does your dog have any health concerns?
>> And so on.  A follow up survey could be done a year later to see if the
>> team
>>
>> is still together.  There could also be additional questions about
>> satisfaction with follow up services.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>>
>>> Tracy, Marion, and All,
>>>
>>> I think the idea of a consumer survey is excellent.
>>>
>>> A list of questions regarding policies could be presented in a table or
>>> spread sheet format and be very informative to persons who re 
>>> considering
>>> applying to a guide dog training school for the first time, to those who
>>> are
>>> returning after their first guide, to family and friends of guide dog
>>> users,
>>> etc.  One example of a policy question is the ownership status of guide
>>> dogs
>>> upon graduation. The guide dog schools could be asked for written or
>>> electronic copies of their policies and a table compiled on that basis.
>>> School contact persons, e-mails, telephone numbers, and addresses could
>>> be
>>> included in the table and/or there could be links to the schools' web
>>> pages
>>> embedded in the table.  Potentially, the draft table could be circulated
>>> to
>>> the schools for corrections/updates as needed.  This table of policy
>>> comparisons could be posted on the NAGDU home page as a basic resource.
>>> Also, a note included with the table could be a disclaimer that because
>>> school policies can change periodically, interested applicants should
>>> contact the schools directly for copies of their current policies.
>>> Example policy areas might include, but are not limited to, the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> Entry requirements (check all that apply)
>>> Medical report
>>> Eye doctor's report
>>> Recommendations (number required if applicable)
>>> Video
>>> Orientation and mobility report
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>> Local Home training
>>> (Yes/No)
>>>
>>> Guide Dog ownership upon successful graduation
>>> (Check one. School/Guide Dog User)
>>>
>>> And so on.
>>>
>>> Does this make sense to anyone?
>>>
>>> JMHO
>>>
>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:47 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>> I think some kind of consumer report would be great, though I don't know
>>> how it could be done right.
>>> When I read "A Guide to Guide Dog Schools", it made some schools who 
>>> have
>>> a bad reputation sound great, and some with a good reputation sound bad,
>>> so plain statistics don't really do the job.
>>> Then you have those who think their school can do no wrong, and those 
>>> who
>>> have an axe to grind from something school X did 20 or 30 years ago. 
>>> And
>>> those who are reluctant to talk about problems.  I find myself sometimes
>>> hesitant to "air dirty laundry in public."  But, if someone can figure
>>> out
>>> how to get around those problems, a consumer report would be a very good
>>> thing.
>>> Though of course it would have to be updated from time to time, as
>>> schools' policies and training change.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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