[nagdu] Consumer report
Julie J
julielj at windstream.net
Fri Aug 27 13:05:56 UTC 2010
Steve,
I totally understand. You are most definitely correct, a sample of only 2-3
people is not enough to draw any conclusions. I do have some background and
training in survey creation and statistical sampling, although it's been a
long while since I've used any of those skills.
If the response is very low, we could continue to collect more data over
time to have more of a longitudinal approach rather than a latitudinal
one. There are a ton of details to be worked out before I'd feel
comfortable moving forward with a survey. I don't think it's putting the
cart before the horse to talk about the concept of it though. If we can
dream about what the end result would offer, then it becomes much easier to
plan how to get there.
This is a really big project, bigger than I think many people realize. I
also think that sometimes people don't speak up about ideas like this
because then they get recruited to help. I know I've stayed quiet in the
past because I simply didn't have time to help. This is something that I
feel very strongly about though and I'm willing to make time for it. It may
be a while before I'm able to dive in and really get going on it. *sigh*I'm
really excited that Cathryn has already made a start on it. If there is
anyone else who has a background in research methods or statistics and would
like to help, please write to me.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
> Julie,
>
> I do understand that aspect, however, it strikes me as odd that it appears
> to have a somewhat narrow pool of individuals that potentially would
> choose
> to participate; again based on the mere fact that the response is less
> than
> other daily posts. It is not by any means targeting those who are
> embracing
> this idea, but in the big picture view, I am genuinely concerned about the
> reliability and validity of such a product as the potential size of the
> random sample may really skew what would essentially be posted. Again,
> just
> calling the question, and thinking outside of the box. If my decision is
> based on 2 or 3 handler's experiences of a particular school, that by no
> means is representative of the whole. It is very subjective which it
> seems
> like the one thing that needs to be considered here in the big picture.
> If
> you can increase that number by 10 fold, than it does become in a sense
> more
> objective as the experiences show similarities and trends which is what is
> essentially being sought here. Sometimes it is easy to simply put, place
> the horse before the cart.
>
> Respectfully,
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 7:31 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
> Steve,
>
> There are a lot of people that subscribe to this list that rarely or never
> post anything. It is quite normal to only hear from a handful of people.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>
>
>> Catherine,
>>
>> My primary concern stems from the fact that we as individuals on this
>> list
>> are only hearing from but a handful of folks surrounding this idea which
>> really jumps out at me, thus prompting me to call the question. Just
>> stating the facts.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Cathryn Bonnette
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:34 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Is there a problem? Even if I make decisions about this, I don't expect
>> to
>> be the only decision maker. I am not looking for extra volunteer work
>> either. Thus, if this type of resource is determined to be unnecessary,
>> so
>> be it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:36 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Any chance you would poll the membership on this list serv to see if it
>> is
>> something they would be interested in? Honestly, I have only read a
>> handful
>> of responses supporting this.
>>
>> JMHO,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Cathryn Bonnette
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:50 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Tami and all-
>>
>> I think that's a "go" YEE HAH!!!
>> Hmmmmmm. Now what?
>>
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:55 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Sounds reasonable to me. In fact, I like it! /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Cathryn Bonnette
>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 6:31 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Julie and all-
>>
>> Just a quick note on the third page on owner training- I think it could
>> easily be a very simple and clean attention-getter. For example, before I
>> joined this list, I didn't realize that the ADA doesn't require formal
>> guide
>> dog training from a school. I had no contact with guide dog owners who
>> have
>> actually trained their own guides. If others are in
>> similar situations, some introductory info could be very helpful. . . .
>> .
>> .
>> Beyond that, why wouldn't contact details for a few resource people-
>> consenting owner/trainers- be enough- at least for starters? Later, if
>> there
>> is consensus on expanding that part of the resource, it can be done.
>> Meanwhile the first 2 pages with policy and survey details permitting
>> comparison "shopping" of the different schools can be completed and
>> available to interested readers. Does that sound reasonable?
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> OK- back to studying and domestic details-
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:52 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Julie and Cathryn,
>>
>> Would you and anyone else who's interested like to run with this?
>> Honestly,
>> it's something I've been tearing my hair over trying to get to, and now
>> that
>> I'm close to that item on my to-do list, I'm tearing my hair during my
>> rest/thinking breaks about how to get assistance and what to do, because
>> here's what I would like to see...
>>
>> Which is exactly what you two are discussing and seem to be ready to run
>> with! I can live with scratching off future items on my to-do list
>> because
>> someone else thought of it and done it. /grin/
>>
>> As for decisions about what goes up on the site and what needs group
>> discussion first and what needs to go through the Board... I have some
>> discretion to make executive decisions. Technically, full discretion,
>> which
>> means I need to be responsible enough to know what to edit or add and
>> what
>> to put the brakes on because if we're not careful, it will bite us on the
>> ... well, you know what I'm saying.
>>
>> That's where that part of it stands now, but please do keep discussing it
>> and giving your intelligent and thoughtful ideas of what you believe
>> should
>> go through the Board and what should be webmaster (soon to be web team)
>> discretion...
>>
>> Oh, and you're volunteering yourselves for the team by opening your
>> mouths.
>> /grin/ Cheryl E. and I are working out a way that we can incorporate
>> some
>> of her ideas and materials into the site without crashing one or the
>> other
>> of two busy women in different time zones. /smile/
>>
>> One of these days, we (NAGDU) will need to have a procedure and protocol
>> and
>> all that for member contribution and what all... For now, I'm just in
>> heaven because people are offering up things so that I can scramble to
>> get
>> those last bits and pieces toether and... I keep trying to keep this
>> short
>> so I can get back to dashing between those computers to do those bits and
>> pieces. Keep up the good work and I love the disucssion.
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>> Cathryn,
>>
>> I'm not sure if there are specific rules on approval from the board. I
>> wouldn't feel comfortable with doing such a project without their
>> approval
>> and endorsement though.
>>
>> A third info page on owner training could be added, but the amount of
>> information to explain how step-by-step is probably more than can even be
>> contained in a single book. So the web page would have to be more of an
>> overview thing or things to consider if a person is thinking about it.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>
>>
>>> Hi Julie
>>>
>>> As one who has been working on a manuscript for eons, far be it from
>>> me to interfere with your plan, and more power to you!
>>> So, if I understand correctly, we might proceed with a spread sheet
>>> with page 1 containing contact info, abbreviations for names,
>>> policies in certain areas, and spread sheet page 2 containing
>>> consumer feedback in certain categories.
>>>
>>> Does a board of directors or similar body need to approve this? Sorry,
>>> I'm not up on the actual organization of this group (yet).
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:04 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>> Cathryn,
>>>
>>> It sounds great! The old NAGDU website did have the names and contact
>>> info of all the American guide dog schools and some of the
>>> international ones.
>>> It would be easy enough to get particular program info like length of
>>> training and ownership policies for each. Although that will take a
>>> lot of time.
>>>
>>> The survey on consumer satisfaction will take quite a bit of time and
>>> legwork to complete. I still think it would be an excellent resource.
>>> If NAGDU as a whole wants to go forward with it, I willing to work on
>>> it.
>>>
>>> but about the bit on owner training...unfortunately there is currently
>>> no resource or training manual on how to do such a thing. I'm working
>>> on writing a book on the topic. I am always happy to answer questions
>>> and share my perspective on a particular area of owner training.
>>> However the honest truth is that I am hoping to sell the book not give
>>> it
>> away.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>>
>>>> What about a combined resource as a tool for those seeking to compare
>>>> guide dog schools for training etc.? One page of the resource could
>>>> be a list of questions as you listed with cells showing the number of
>>>> respondents giving each answer with row and column totals.
>>>> Another page could compare policies of the different schools in areas
>>>> I listed. The combined effect would show what the schools require and
>>>> provide according to their policies. The other page would show user
>>>> responses and satisfaction with performance of the schools. Anyone
>>>> who reads the resource can decide what is most important to them and
>>>> choose accordingly.
>>>> Finally,
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> can envision a separate page with information about owner trained
>>>> guide dogs. This page could inform readers that the ADA does not
>>>> require training from a school, and provide information about
>>>> steps/resources for beginning to train your guide dog, sources for
>>>> puppies, breeds and considerations, foods, harnesses, leashes,
>>>> shampoos, grooming supplies, for all the different stages etc. etc.
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Thus, the final result is a more sophisticated and well informed
>>>> population of guide dog users who are no longer victims of guide dog
>>>> schools, guide dog trainers, with all related attitudes toward "the
>>>> blind" etc. This population will be enabled to take more control of
>>>> their lives, to start deciding which breed they want, how long they
>>>> will take off from work for guide dog training, whether they prefer
>>>> to own their guide dog or not, etc. These are the obvious decisions
>>>> most adults would expect to make about their own lives. How it has
>>>> happened that human beings who happen to be blind have allowed some
>>>> normally sighted "professionals" to maintain inappropriate control is
>>>> beyond me! It doesn't matter- it needs to stop!
>>>> JMHO
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:47 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it does make sense. However GDUI has already done an inventory
>>>> of all this information. It is very thorough. I believe it was
>>>> updated in 2006.
>>>>
>>>> What I am suggesting is more of a user satisfaction sort of thing.
>>>> Questions might include:
>>>> How well do you feel your dog was trained?
>>>> How well do you feel your dog matches your lifestyle and needs?
>>>> How well do you feel prepared to handle an access challenge?
>>>> Does your dog have any health concerns?
>>>> And so on. A follow up survey could be done a year later to see if
>>>> the team
>>>>
>>>> is still together. There could also be additional questions about
>>>> satisfaction with follow up services.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tracy, Marion, and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the idea of a consumer survey is excellent.
>>>>>
>>>>> A list of questions regarding policies could be presented in a table
>>>>> or spread sheet format and be very informative to persons who re
>>>>> considering applying to a guide dog training school for the first
>>>>> time, to those who are returning after their first guide, to family
>>>>> and friends of guide dog users, etc. One example of a policy
>>>>> question is the ownership status of guide dogs upon graduation. The
>>>>> guide dog schools could be asked for written or electronic copies of
>>>>> their policies and a table compiled on that basis.
>>>>> School contact persons, e-mails, telephone numbers, and addresses
>>>>> could be included in the table and/or there could be links to the
>>>>> schools' web pages embedded in the table. Potentially, the draft
>>>>> table could be circulated to the schools for corrections/updates as
>>>>> needed. This table of policy comparisons could be posted on the
>>>>> NAGDU home page as a basic resource.
>>>>> Also, a note included with the table could be a disclaimer that
>>>>> because school policies can change periodically, interested
>>>>> applicants should contact the schools directly for copies of their
>> current policies.
>>>>> Example policy areas might include, but are not limited to, the
>>>>> following:
>>>>>
>>>>> Entry requirements (check all that apply) Medical report Eye
>>>>> doctor's report Recommendations (number required if applicable)
>>>>> Video Orientation and mobility report Etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Local Home training
>>>>> (Yes/No)
>>>>>
>>>>> Guide Dog ownership upon successful graduation (Check one.
>>>>> School/Guide Dog User)
>>>>>
>>>>> And so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this make sense to anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> JMHO
>>>>>
>>>>> Cathryn Bonnette
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:47 AM
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Consumer report
>>>>>
>>>>> I think some kind of consumer report would be great, though I don't
>>>>> know how it could be done right.
>>>>> When I read "A Guide to Guide Dog Schools", it made some schools who
>>>>> have a bad reputation sound great, and some with a good reputation
>>>>> sound bad, so plain statistics don't really do the job.
>>>>> Then you have those who think their school can do no wrong, and
>>>>> those who have an axe to grind from something school X did 20 or 30
>>>>> years ago.
>>>>> And
>>>>> those who are reluctant to talk about problems. I find myself
>>>>> sometimes hesitant to "air dirty laundry in public." But, if
>>>>> someone can figure out how to get around those problems, a consumer
>>>>> report would be a very good thing.
>>>>> Though of course it would have to be updated from time to time, as
>>>>> schools' policies and training change.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>
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