[nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of disabled

Sun Dec 5 23:20:11 UTC 2010

Maybe eventually the dog will be taught the route; that teaching, however, 
can't just suddenly occur. I think we need to leave off judging the guy, and 
maybe even the city, or not. I don't know why they made the ruling.

Cindy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
To: ""NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>" 
<=?US-ASCII?Q?=22NAGDU_Mailing_List=2C=09the_National_Associa?= 
=?US-ASCII?Q?tion_of_Guide_Dog_Users=22_=3Cnagdu=40nfbnet=2Eorg=3E?=>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of disabled

People,
If you have a dog teach the dog the route. It's not that hard and not that 
big of a problem.
Jordan

"Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

>Okay, I'm supposed to be studying for my finals, but I just can't help
>myself.
>First and foremost, this is a news article. We don't have the whole
>story,
>and some of the information could be incorrect. Looking what we do
>have,
>this is what I get out of it:
>
>1. Getting through that particular part is hard even for sighted
>people.
>
>2. There were supposed to be chirping sounds to direct blind people to
>Braille signs.
>a. Those sounds weren't there.
>b. Even if they were there, imagine trying to follow a sound in a
>crowded
>area. May I remind the list members that some blind people also have
>hearing
>problems, so follow the sound can be harder for some people than for
>others.
>
>3. The man was not notified of this prior to his trip home. Had he been
>
>notified, he could have and probably would have been prepared. The
>powers
>that be probably did not realize what they were doing, but there needs
>to be
>a way to notify people of these things.
>
>4. The city did this supposedly for a reason. They probably did not
>realize
>what this was going to do. Regardless of blindness or not, they made a
>mistake. Supposedly it is about safety, and they just screwed the bolt
>a
>little too tight and need to back up and fix it. It sounds like they
>are
>trying to fix it.
>
>Other points
>
>1. It is my personal and humble opinion that those who are blind are
>entitled to the same information in a similar way as sighted people. If
>
>sighted person can read a menu in a restaurant independently, and I can
>read
>Braille, then the menu should be in Braille. If there are directional
>signs
>saying which way to go, they should be in Braille or have audible
>directions. If neither of these is possible, that is when you start
>looking
>for other solutions, either having an escort or allowing the person who
>is
>meeting them to come in.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 1:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of disabled
>
>
>> Ever tried to get a cab in NYC, with a guide dog? If it's anything
>like
>> Dallas, or countless other big cities, regardless what the law says,
>it
>> ain't always that easy. If you can have an arrangement with a
>particular
>> driver, group of drivers, or company, it's often the difference
>between
>> getting where you're going and waiting for hours while cabs pass you
>up
>> because they don't want your dirty, unclean, etc. etc. dog in their
>cab.
>> Like Isaid, doesn't matter what the law says, the fact of the matter
>is,
>> cab access is something we're still fighting. And too often, we have
>to be
>> pragmatic about the thing and make our arrangements the way this guy
>has.
>> Whatever you think about how this guy should be making his way
>wherever,
>> this is a really stupid policy on the part of the transit authority,
>> anyway. Seems fairly arbitrary, too.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2010, at 4:16 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>>
>>> It's an issue now, and he needs to make a choice either to walk to
>where
>>> that cab company can pick him up at or change cab companies.  If he
>has
>>> other disabilities then this would be a different situation.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 2:52 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of
>disabled
>>>
>>> When the guy chose to use that cab company, this was not an issue.
>You
>>> guys,
>>>
>>> this is really a rude way to treat a person. Suppose you wanted his
>guy
>>> to
>>> come into the Federation and suppose he had joined this thread and
>saw
>>> these
>>>
>>> condemning messages. If you were that guy, would that make you want
>to be
>>> a
>>> member? You would think we were a bunch of blind snobs. I know this
>>> because
>>> I've treated people like this in my past. I could have helped them
>more
>>> if I
>>>
>>> had been compassionate and tried to find a way to understand where
>they
>>> are
>>> and then try to help the person.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 2:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of
>disabled
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter,
>>> I agree with you completely.  I bet if the route is done a few
>times, the
>>> dog will pick it up and automatically go in the right direction.
>For
>>> example, I can be about a half mile away from my dorm, and September
>will
>>> get me back to it without any input from me.Another thing too is
>that
>>> just
>>> becayse tiy are blind doesn't entitle you to any special treatment.
>If
>>> you
>>> freely choose to use a cab company that doesn't have a contract,
>well,
>>> you
>>> should have to do what everyone else does.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 10:02 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of
>disabled
>>>
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>
>>>    I thought he got a guide dog to enhance his ability to travel
>>> independently including negotiating his way from the fairy terminal
>to
>>> the
>>> cab pick-up area. Johnny and I deal with similar situations all the
>time.
>>> It's no big deal. If you have a mobility issue that's one thing but
>an
>>> able-bodied blind individual including those accompanied by guide
>dogs
>>> should be able to manage such routes with little or no trouble.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 8:24 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of disabled
>>>
>>>
>>> New city TLC cab policy blind to needs of disabled
>>> Published: Sunday, December 05, 2010, 5:53 AM     Updated:
>>> Sunday, December 05, 2010, 6:01 AM
>>> Jeff Harrell
>>>
>>> <http://blog.silive.com/around_the_block_column/2010/12/new_city_
>>> tlc_cab_policy_blind_to_needs_of_disabled.html>
>>> http://blog.silive.com/around_the_block_column/2010/12/new_city_t
>>> lc_cab_policy_blind_to_needs_of_disabled.html
>>>
>>> STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- It's tough enough getting to a cab outside
>>> the St. George Ferry Terminal with your health fully intact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staten Island Advance/Hilton FloresLivery cabs not under contract
>>> with the city line up on Richmond Terrace, waiting for ferry
>>> commuters.
>>>
>>> Just making your way into and out of the terminal involves
>>> following a convoluted path filled with cones, barrel barriers
>>> and signs telling you to go there, turn here, and oh well ... too
>>> bad if you end up at a dead-end.
>>>
>>> None of the signs wishes you luck if you're disabled and have a
>>> special arrangement with a cab company that isn't one of the
>>> city's Chosen Four allowed to pick up and drop off commuters on
>>> the Ferry Terminal's property anymore.
>>>
>>> Just ask Dana Avant.
>>>
>>> Dana is blind and totally dependent on his new guide dog to get
>>> around on foot, a black Lab named Aidan he just partnered with
>>> two weeks ago.
>>>
>>> When Dana needs a ride from the ferry to his apartment in Fox
>>> Hills, the 62-year-old retired child welfare social worker calls
>>> ahead to Grant City Car Service to be there waiting when he gets
>>> off the boat.
>>>
>>> "I use Grant City all the time, and they're very nice, very
>>> courteous," Dana says. "They say, 'Call us when you're on the
>>> boat and we'll be waiting for you.'"
>>>
>>> Last Friday when Dana got off the boat, Grant City couldn't make
>>> it.
>>>
>>> "They told me they were no longer allowed to come into the
>>> terminal," Dana recalls.
>>>
>>> Instead, the cab sat out on Richmond Terrace - a hike, several
>>> skips and numerous jumps from the terminal for even the heartiest
>>> of commuters with 20/20 vision.
>>>
>>>
>>> 0
>>> Share  0 Comments
>>> Staten Island Advance/Irving SilversteinDana Avant, ouside his
>>> home in Fox Hills with his service dog. He's blind and having
>>> trouble with taxis not being allowed on ferry termnal property.
>>> (Staten Island Advance/Irving Silverstein)
>>> "How in the hell am I going to know where that is if I can't
>>> see?" Dana asks, still exasperated at the lunacy of the
>>> situation. "I couldn't get out there if I had to ... and I had
>>> to."
>>>
>>> Standing blind in a panic with Aidan by his side, Dana received
>>> assistance from a passerby who helped him flag down a cab.
>>>
>>> The following Monday, Dana phoned the non-emergency 311 number to
>>> complain. What he dialed into was a bureaucratic circle of
>>> goofiness that made the Ferry Terminal's parking lot look like a
>>> straight answer.
>>>
>>> The 311 operator told Dana to call DOT or TLC, the city's Taxi &
>>> Limousine Commission.
>>>
>>> "They gave me the service number at the Ferry Terminal," Dana
>>> says.
>>>
>>> Dana thanked the phone reps for playing pass the buck and called
>>> the Ferry Terminal.
>>>
>>> The man who picked up assured Dana the honchos in charge were
>>> doing everything to make the Terminal accessible for the blind,
>>> including the installation of Braille directional signs
>>> designated by "chirping birds." Dana was told to keep his ears
>>> peeled for the chirping birds.
>>>
>>> "I never heard any chirping birds," Dana says.
>>>
>>> Then, the terminal guy got terminally chirpy with Dana.
>>>
>>> "He said, 'We have nothing to do with this. Try TLC. They're the
>>> ones that made the ruling.'"
>>>
>>> Dana's snicker over going 'round and 'round for a ride home by a
>>> cab company he deals with regularly is worth a thousand chirps.
>>>
>>> "I don't know what bureaucrat thought this up," Dana says.
>>>
>>> This, meaning, the city's contract that only allows taxis from
>>> four companies - Clove Lakes, Island Wide, DeJoy's and Newport -
>>> near the ferry ramp.
>>>
>>> All other car services, including Grant City Car Service,
>>> Access-A-Ride Taxi and others that accommodate the disabled, are
>>> prohibited from driving on the ferry ramp because the city's
>>> contract forbids outside competition from picking up fares on
>>> terminal property.
>>>
>>> "It's a public place," insists a lone United Cabs cabbie parked
>>> on Richmond Terrace Tuesday afternoon waiting in vain for anybody
>>> to hoof it out to the street through a drizzling rain looking for
>>> a ride. "Why do you have a private contract that keeps us out?"
>>>
>>> Allan J. Fromberg, TLC's deputy commissioner of public
>>> information, says the contract keeps "gypsy cabs" from converging
>>> on people during the terminal's rush hours and transporting them
>>> in vehicles that are unlicensed, uninsured, uninspected and
>>> driven by cabbies who have not been drug-tested.
>>>
>>> "It was like the wild, wild west," Fromberg says of the taxi
>>> free-for-all at the terminal prior to the contract.
>>>
>>> Since prohibiting cab companies from picking up pre-arranged
>>> disabled passengers at a convenient spot outside the terminal
>>> borders on the absurd, Fromberg says MTA is compiling a list of
>>> "black car services" not stipulated in the contract that would be
>>> allowed to pick up and drop off on the property.
>>>
>>> A DOT spokeswoman says those cabs, which would be marked to let
>>> the terminal's enforcement personnel know they are "legit," will
>>> be able to pick up and drop off passengers at a designated area
>>> "at the former taxi drop-off/pickup ramp."
>>>
>>> "We're going to make sure there's a place they can do it,"
>>> Fromberg says. "We just have to dot the I's and cross the T's. We
>>> have an obligation to make sure that the car they hop into is
>>> insured, inspected and safe."
>>>
>>> That's fine with Dana, as long as he and his guide dog don't have
>>> to feel their way out to Richmond Terrace to hunt down a ride
>>> home.
>>>
>>> "Suppose somebody has orthopedic or mobility problems," Dana
>>> asks. "This could disenfranchise the disabled community."
>>>
>>> Even a blind man can see that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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