[nagdu] responsible handling and ownership

Wed Dec 8 23:02:26 UTC 2010

Wow, just wow. I bet those same people with their unruly dogs would
certainly raise a stink and sue this that or the other if a seemingly
ordinary dog bit their guide or them. oh how the lawyers would swarm. I tell
you this Jeanine, I wish I were the one that got bitten by a guide dog, I
would take the handler, the trainer and the school if there were one to
court. Nasty dogs should not destroy the calm and loving demeanor of our
companions. One bad apple needs to be tossed out, forget letting it run the
risk of ruining the whole bunch or not. 

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:14 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] responsible handling and ownership

Thanks Al for your thoughts. 

As someone who has had a dog who passed through training and worked for over
a year without showing any signs of growling, then who began slowly but
escalated to the point that she needed to be retired, I can say the growling
one isn't easy. I tried everything with Molly, including a number of
suggestions and protocols with GDF trainers and nothing worked. I was even
reported for not correcting her when I was trying to give a discrete but
effective correction. The person just didn't happen to hear anything she
registered as a correction, including my apology for Molly's outburst. 

I've actually had to deal with people at a convention whose dogs growled and
attacked other dogs and wait staff and the handlers found nothing wrong with
the practice because they said they lived in a very bad neighborhood and
wanted the two dogs to be protective. I tried to get the hotel to toss them,
which the hotel would have been well within its legal right to do, as well
as ACB/GDUI banning the dogs from the convention venues, but no one wanted
to take that step. The people whose dogs were attacked refused to file
police reports. I shake my head at such things. Everyone complained but no
one wanted to take the legal action to which they were entitled. I did
contact the guide dog school that trained the teams and did at that time
retain ownership and I don't know what was done, short of not giving them
successor dogs. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:10 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] responsible handling and ownership

Jeanine,

You pose some very interesting points to consider. First, from a handlers
perspective, I would hate to think that there are guides out there who are
growling at people or even that their handlers allow that sort of behavior.
I become concerned in as much as a guide trained at a school or foundation
for the most part is not considered for guide work if  they exhibit even the
slightest amount of aggression. So, is this something the handler is either
teaching or nurturing in the guide? if so, then, as a school with a
reputation it is in the best interest of the school to investigate these
this matter and act accordingly. The schools reputation and the reputation
and access for all handlers and their guides is at risk. The weight thing
for me is a business issues in as much as a school wants a team to be
together as long as is possible and a dog being over weight could shorten a
teams time together.  Regarding misrepresentation of ability or past
experiences not fully divulged in an interview process is a breach of
contract and any school is well within their rights to recall a dog or
perhaps deny the handler to return for another dog. However, all that is
avoidable if the schools actually do background checks and investigations
into the individuals  prior to inviting them to take one of their guides. If
all that is not acceptable to some, then they always have the option as so
many on this list choose and  do so very effectively to train their own dogs
and forgo the whole process of involving big brother per say.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:36 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] responsible handling and ownership

OK, let me take off my guide dog school staff hat before asking these
questions of all of you. 

I too believe ownership is a very important principle and did encourage the
GDF board to adopt it in the mid '90's. That said, I'd like to ask what you
would do in the following scenarios. 

1. You encounter someone, either on a regular basis or just now and then,
whose dog growls repeatedly at other dogs. The handler doesn't seem to do
much to stop the practice and even states that he/she likes it because
he/she lives in a bad area and it keeps people away. The dog has growled and
lunged at your guide several times. What do you do? Should the handler keep
such a dog? If the person owns the dog and the school cannot convince
him/her to retire it, what should happen? 

2. You notice at convention, and I'm not going to go into how you'd notice
this, but you do, that a number of dogs are moderately to severely
overweight. The handlers are good people who are generally good at working
their dogs. What role should the schools have, either those who retain
ownership or those who grant it to the handler, in dogs' overall health? 

3. A school has graduated someone who, it was later learned, lied on his
application about having been to and been denied by or not completed
training at other schools due to various issues. He is granted ownership of
his dog. A number of complaints are filed over their working time about
cruelty issues and health concerns when the dog appears severely under
weight. The person is defensive when the school calls to let him know about
the complaints. The school decides not to accept him for another dog. He
wants you, or your organization, to stand behind his right to have a dog
from that school. Do you do it? What do you base your decision on? 

These are just some of the scenarios I've seen in my 2 years on staff at GDF
and 5 years on their board, not to mention all my time with GDUI. I've been
on both sides of each one in one way or another and there are no right
answers, just things to consider and discuss. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com

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