[nagdu] Hawaii
Julie J
julielj at windstream.net
Thu Dec 9 12:57:48 UTC 2010
I take offense at the idea of having to divulge my medical records to some
government agency and then having to carry and show a card that announces my
disability.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>I am Jewish a definitely not the same thing Julie.
>
> I take offense to that.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
> 1-866-580-5574
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
> Inc.
>
> join my yahoogroup
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie J<mailto:julielj at windstream.net>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> Uh...no, not really. blind people are just as capable of taking a pet
> into
> public as anyone else.
>
> Having to prove my blindness and carry a card kind of reminds me of the
> stars the Jews had to wear under Hitler.
>
> The ADA clearly states that it is the training of the dog in skills that
> mitigate the handlers disability that make it a service dog.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> > I've changed from what I was thinking origionally. The thing that
> could
> > work, since those of us who either don't want to or don't have time to
> > train
> > our own dog, go to a school and have to present proof of disability,
> > well,
> > if those who owner train had to present proof of disability and get a
> > harness made that indicates that the animal is a service animal along
> with
> > getting an I.D. card with proof of disability, that may work. Then it
> > would
> > be quite a bit harder for someone to take a pet into a business
> especially
> > if the law was changed to reflect the above. Basically, it would
> require
> > that somewhere on the harness it indicated clearly that the dog is a
> > service
> > dog and not a pet.
> > Jordan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:21 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> > Julie,
> >
> > My thing is that I think it would be just dandy to crack down on the
> > frauds
> > when they're caught and fine them to within an inch of their lives or
> > throw
> > them in jail, stuff like that. Can't remember right now what penalties
> > are
> > in the law, but I'm thinking there are some.
> >
> > That way, they're cracking down on the people who are breaking the law
> > instead of cracking down on those who are.
> >
> > Kinda over simplistic, I know, but I get irritable over new rules to
> make
> > up
> > for the fact the existing rules aren't enforced, so people break
> them...
> > it
> > just seems silly and annoying.
> >
> > I feel a lot that way about access issues, too. If the law is there
> but
> > it
> > takes a zillion years in court to have it enforced, then I guess that
> > tells
> > me why I just need to plan to have to deal with stupid access issues
> from
> > someone who knows the law and just doesn't want to follow it. Sigh.
> >
> > Maybe my thinking is out of whack, but I seem to notice in articles
> about
> > issues in other countries, the fines are steep and are levied right
> quick
> > by
> > the relevant authorities. This doesn't seem to be the case so much
> > here...
> > I've never had to call in the authorities over an access issue (yet),
> but
> > when I get a whiff that one might be coming up, I really wonder if
> calling
> > them in will do anything to improve my situation. Depends on the cop,
> I
> > guess. I'm not that eager to find out how our local police do when
> > there's
> > a line-in-the-sand confrontation. I just wish I could rest assured
> about
> > the matter, just in case. /smile/
> >
> > Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Julie J
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:04 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> > Jordan,
> >
> > Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
> >
> > I owner train my guides. Not self train. the dog doesn't train itself.
> > I'm
> >
> > interested to know how certification could work.
> >
> > How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a
> > program work. What about someone who has some useable vision and uses
> > their
> >
> > dog as a low vision aid? Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?
> How
> > is
> > that going to not violate my civil rights? Who is going to pay for
> this
> > certification? How does this certification prove that in two months or
> > under different circumstances my dog is going to behave? What criteria
> > are
> > going to be used in this certification? Where is this harness going to
> > come
> >
> > from? Who is going to pay for it? What if it doesn't fit my needs?
> >
> > I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or ill
> > behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work while
> > respecting everyone's civil rights.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> >
> >> This is where the ADA needs to be changed. All someone can ask is is
> >> that
> >
> >> a
> >> service animal. Well, there really should be a requirement that even
> >> self
> >> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such
> as
> >> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a
> >> self
> >> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
> >> working
> >> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
> >> service
> >> animal. And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask
> for
> >> documentation.
> >> Jordan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Jenine Stanley
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >> Thanks much Julie.
> >>
> >> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
> >> without
> >> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
> >>
> >> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
> >> tests
> >> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven
> to
> >> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
> >> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
> >> regarding
> >> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most
> cases,
> >> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
> >>
> >> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and
> her
> >> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who
> >> buys
> >
> >> a
> >> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or
> a
> >> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
> >> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During
> >> that
> >> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around
> >> the
> >> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets
> do?
> >>
> >> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one
> >> night
> >> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through
> >> the
> >> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
> >> nothing
> >> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and
> then
> >> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The
> dog
> >> was
> >> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they
> screwed
> >> up
> >> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that
> >> the
> >> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's
> >> just
> >> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
> >>
> >> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if
> the
> >> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they
> check
> >> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
> >> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's
> just
> >> say
> >> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal
> with
> >> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
> >> suspect
> >> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
> >>
> >> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the
> >> least
> >> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
> >> licensing
> >> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll
> >> need
> >> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone
> >> who
> >> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to
> travel
> >> to
> >> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
> >>
> >> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less
> paperwork
> >> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win
> >> out.
> >> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
> >>
> >> Jenine Stanley
> >> jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Julie J
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >> Jordan and Dan,
> >>
> >> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
> >> We've
> >> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion. So I
> >> guess
> >> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
> >>
> >> I agree with the two of you. It isn't fair that people with guide
> dogs
> >> have
> >>
> >> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii. furthermore as
> an
> >> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel
> to
> >> Hawaii. I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to
> Hawaii.
> >>
> >> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free. I can understand how
> >> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands. However I
> >> would
> >>
> >> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer
> test
> >> would be sufficient. not sure how to accomplish that without some
> sort
> >> of
> >> extra paperwork requirement.
> >>
> >> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and
> GDUI
> >> for working diligently to improve the situation. I don't think it's
> fair
> >> to
> >>
> >> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible
> >> leap
> >> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii. I totally
> >> completely
> >> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in
> the
> >> settlement and working on the rest later. "It is better to do
> something
> >> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
> >> sorry
> >> I can't remember whose quote it is.
> >>
> >> Julie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks Dan. You seem to be one of the few on this group who see
> things
> >>> the
> >>> same way I do.
> >>> Jordan
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Dan Weiner
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
> >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>>
> >>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
> >>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and
> so
> >>> on,
> >>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
> >>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other
> countries.
> >>> If
> >>
> >>> I
> >>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
> >>> forced
> >>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a
> dog.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what
> I
> >>> at
> >>> least find objectionable.
> >>>
> >>> Dan W.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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