[nagdu] Hawaii
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Dec 9 13:50:52 UTC 2010
i just read muy post and I meant to say that Julie does not, repeat does not
need to apologize for her statement. We all of us tend to be to sensitive
and quick to judge. Apples are apples, and oranges are oranges, lets try not
to upset the apple cart to much with off beat comparison. keep it real and
on point. Julie I apologize for that typo.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:45 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Cheryl relax a bit there you're a little over the top there. I agree with
you that it is a stretch to compare much if anything to that terrible time
in our history but Julie does, in my opinion, need to apologize. How is what
she said any different then the offerings of Marion suggesting that African
Americans carry an id card to prove how truly African American they may or
may not be.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:28 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
What no apology, I just lost all respect now.
oh some people think the Holocaust never happened. So when my great uncle
hears this from idiots he looks at his arm, and prays in Hebrew to open the
eyes of these people.
The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel Inc.
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----- Original Message -----
From: cheryl echevarria<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Thank you Albert.
We have to have passports and non-driver's licenses not for showing that
we are disabled but that we do not drive and need a government ID to show we
are US Citizens, I'd rather have all these IDs than being a terrorist here
or an illegal alien.
The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/<http://echevarriatr
avel.com%3chttp//echevarriatravel.com/>>
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
el.com>>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
Inc.
join my yahoogroup
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@yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:
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----- Original Message -----
From: Albert J
Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Well what is your take on having to produce a license if you are a
driver of
an automobile or then again what is your take on passports and papers
for
that matter proving citizenship. There is no comparison to the plight of
the
holocaust in that the identification was used for genocide not for
allowing
equal access or ensuring that the fool behind you with his pit bull or
his
snake or her chicken has a valid service animal.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:48 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Uh...no, not really. blind people are just as capable of taking a pet
into
public as anyone else.
Having to prove my blindness and carry a card kind of reminds me of the
stars the Jews had to wear under Hitler.
The ADA clearly states that it is the training of the dog in skills that
mitigate the handlers disability that make it a service dog.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Gallacher"
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> I've changed from what I was thinking origionally. The thing that
could
> work, since those of us who either don't want to or don't have time to
> train
> our own dog, go to a school and have to present proof of disability,
> well,
> if those who owner train had to present proof of disability and get a
> harness made that indicates that the animal is a service animal along
with
> getting an I.D. card with proof of disability, that may work. Then it
> would
> be quite a bit harder for someone to take a pet into a business
especially
> if the law was changed to reflect the above. Basically, it would
require
> that somewhere on the harness it indicated clearly that the dog is a
> service
> dog and not a pet.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:21 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Julie,
>
> My thing is that I think it would be just dandy to crack down on the
> frauds
> when they're caught and fine them to within an inch of their lives or
> throw
> them in jail, stuff like that. Can't remember right now what
penalties
> are
> in the law, but I'm thinking there are some.
>
> That way, they're cracking down on the people who are breaking the law
> instead of cracking down on those who are.
>
> Kinda over simplistic, I know, but I get irritable over new rules to
make
> up
> for the fact the existing rules aren't enforced, so people break
them...
> it
> just seems silly and annoying.
>
> I feel a lot that way about access issues, too. If the law is there
but
> it
> takes a zillion years in court to have it enforced, then I guess that
> tells
> me why I just need to plan to have to deal with stupid access issues
from
> someone who knows the law and just doesn't want to follow it. Sigh.
>
> Maybe my thinking is out of whack, but I seem to notice in articles
about
> issues in other countries, the fines are steep and are levied right
quick
> by
> the relevant authorities. This doesn't seem to be the case so much
> here...
> I've never had to call in the authorities over an access issue (yet),
but
> when I get a whiff that one might be coming up, I really wonder if
calling
> them in will do anything to improve my situation. Depends on the cop,
I
> guess. I'm not that eager to find out how our local police do when
> there's
> a line-in-the-sand confrontation. I just wish I could rest assured
about
> the matter, just in case. /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:04 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Jordan,
>
> Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
>
> I owner train my guides. Not self train. the dog doesn't train
itself.
> I'm
>
> interested to know how certification could work.
>
> How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a
> program work. What about someone who has some useable vision and uses
> their
>
> dog as a low vision aid? Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?
How
> is
> that going to not violate my civil rights? Who is going to pay for
this
> certification? How does this certification prove that in two months
or
> under different circumstances my dog is going to behave? What
criteria
> are
> going to be used in this certification? Where is this harness going
to
> come
>
> from? Who is going to pay for it? What if it doesn't fit my needs?
>
> I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or ill
> behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work
while
> respecting everyone's civil rights.
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> This is where the ADA needs to be changed. All someone can ask is is
>> that
>
>> a
>> service animal. Well, there really should be a requirement that even
>> self
>> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such
as
>> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is
a
>> self
>> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
>> working
>> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
>> service
>> animal. And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask
for
>> documentation.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jenine Stanley
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Thanks much Julie.
>>
>> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
>> without
>> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>>
>> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
>> tests
>> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven
to
>> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is
not
>> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
>> regarding
>> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most
cases,
>> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>>
>> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and
her
>> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who
>> buys
>
>> a
>> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that,
or a
>> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet
his
>> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During
>> that
>> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even
around
>> the
>> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets
do?
>>
>> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm
one
>> night
>> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come
through
>> the
>> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
>> nothing
>> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and
then
>> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The
dog
>> was
>> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they
screwed
>> up
>> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office
that
>> the
>> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's
>> just
>> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>>
>> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if
the
>> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they
check
>> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
>> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's
just
>> say
>> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal
with
>> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
>> suspect
>> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>>
>> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the
>> least
>> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
>> licensing
>> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll
>> need
>> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means
someone
>> who
>> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to
travel
>> to
>> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>>
>> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less
paperwork
>> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will
win
>> out.
>> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>>
jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com%3C
mailto:jeninems at wowway.com>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>> Jordan and Dan,
>>
>> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
>> We've
>> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion. So I
>> guess
>> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>>
>> I agree with the two of you. It isn't fair that people with guide
dogs
>> have
>>
>> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii. furthermore
as an
>> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel
to
>> Hawaii. I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to
Hawaii.
>>
>> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free. I can understand
how
>> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands. However
I
>> would
>>
>> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer
test
>> would be sufficient. not sure how to accomplish that without some
sort
>> of
>> extra paperwork requirement.
>>
>> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and
GDUI
>> for working diligently to improve the situation. I don't think it's
fair
>> to
>>
>> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible
>> leap
>> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii. I totally
>> completely
>> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in
the
>> settlement and working on the rest later. "It is better to do
something
>> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
>> sorry
>> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>>
>>> Thanks Dan. You seem to be one of the few on this group who see
things
>>> the
>>> same way I do.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and
so
>>> on,
>>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other
countries.
>>> If
>>
>>> I
>>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
>>> forced
>>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a
dog.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what
I
>>> at
>>> least find objectionable.
>>>
>>> Dan W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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