[nagdu] Hawaii
Julie J
julielj at windstream.net
Thu Dec 9 13:44:56 UTC 2010
Cheryl,
All those cards are for specific programs, services or privileges. No one
has a card that grants them permission to go in public.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> we have insurance cards as well, and driver's licenses and non-driver's
> licences. and Library cards as well.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
> 1-866-580-5574
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
> Inc.
>
> join my yahoogroup
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie J<mailto:julielj at windstream.net>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> I take offense at the idea of having to divulge my medical records to
> some
> government agency and then having to carry and show a card that announces
> my
> disability.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cheryl echevarria"
> <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 6:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> >I am Jewish a definitely not the same thing Julie.
> >
> > I take offense to that.
> >
> > The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
> >
> > Cheryl Echevarria
> >
> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/<http://echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//echevarriatravel.com/>>
> > 1-866-580-5574
> >
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>>
> >
> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> > CST-1018299-10
> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
> > Inc.
> >
> > join my yahoogroup
> >
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com>>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Julie
> J<mailto:julielj at windstream.net<mailto:julielj at windstream.net>>
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> >
> > Uh...no, not really. blind people are just as capable of taking a pet
> > into
> > public as anyone else.
> >
> > Having to prove my blindness and carry a card kind of reminds me of
> the
> > stars the Jews had to wear under Hitler.
> >
> > The ADA clearly states that it is the training of the dog in skills
> that
> > mitigate the handlers disability that make it a service dog.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> >
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> >
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> >
> > > I've changed from what I was thinking origionally. The thing that
> > could
> > > work, since those of us who either don't want to or don't have time
> to
> > > train
> > > our own dog, go to a school and have to present proof of disability,
> > > well,
> > > if those who owner train had to present proof of disability and get
> a
> > > harness made that indicates that the animal is a service animal
> along
> > with
> > > getting an I.D. card with proof of disability, that may work. Then
> it
> > > would
> > > be quite a bit harder for someone to take a pet into a business
> > especially
> > > if the law was changed to reflect the above. Basically, it would
> > require
> > > that somewhere on the harness it indicated clearly that the dog is a
> > > service
> > > dog and not a pet.
> > > Jordan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > > Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:21 AM
> > > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >
> > > Julie,
> > >
> > > My thing is that I think it would be just dandy to crack down on the
> > > frauds
> > > when they're caught and fine them to within an inch of their lives
> or
> > > throw
> > > them in jail, stuff like that. Can't remember right now what
> penalties
> > > are
> > > in the law, but I'm thinking there are some.
> > >
> > > That way, they're cracking down on the people who are breaking the
> law
> > > instead of cracking down on those who are.
> > >
> > > Kinda over simplistic, I know, but I get irritable over new rules to
> > make
> > > up
> > > for the fact the existing rules aren't enforced, so people break
> > them...
> > > it
> > > just seems silly and annoying.
> > >
> > > I feel a lot that way about access issues, too. If the law is there
> > but
> > > it
> > > takes a zillion years in court to have it enforced, then I guess
> that
> > > tells
> > > me why I just need to plan to have to deal with stupid access issues
> > from
> > > someone who knows the law and just doesn't want to follow it. Sigh.
> > >
> > > Maybe my thinking is out of whack, but I seem to notice in articles
> > about
> > > issues in other countries, the fines are steep and are levied right
> > quick
> > > by
> > > the relevant authorities. This doesn't seem to be the case so much
> > > here...
> > > I've never had to call in the authorities over an access issue
> (yet),
> > but
> > > when I get a whiff that one might be coming up, I really wonder if
> > calling
> > > them in will do anything to improve my situation. Depends on the
> cop,
> > I
> > > guess. I'm not that eager to find out how our local police do when
> > > there's
> > > a line-in-the-sand confrontation. I just wish I could rest assured
> > about
> > > the matter, just in case. /smile/
> > >
> > > Tami Smith-Kinney
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > > Of Julie J
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:04 AM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >
> > > Jordan,
> > >
> > > Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
> > >
> > > I owner train my guides. Not self train. the dog doesn't train
> itself.
> > > I'm
> > >
> > > interested to know how certification could work.
> > >
> > > How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from
> a
> > > program work. What about someone who has some useable vision and
> uses
> > > their
> > >
> > > dog as a low vision aid? Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?
> > How
> > > is
> > > that going to not violate my civil rights? Who is going to pay for
> > this
> > > certification? How does this certification prove that in two months
> or
> > > under different circumstances my dog is going to behave? What
> criteria
> > > are
> > > going to be used in this certification? Where is this harness going
> to
> > > come
> > >
> > > from? Who is going to pay for it? What if it doesn't fit my needs?
> > >
> > > I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or
> ill
> > > behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work
> while
> > > respecting everyone's civil rights.
> > >
> > > Julie
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> >
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> > > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> > >
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >
> > >
> > >> This is where the ADA needs to be changed. All someone can ask is
> is
> > >> that
> > >
> > >> a
> > >> service animal. Well, there really should be a requirement that
> even
> > >> self
> > >> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card,
> such
> > as
> > >> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it
> is a
> > >> self
> > >> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an
> examination,
> > >> working
> > >> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
> > >> service
> > >> animal. And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to
> ask
> > for
> > >> documentation.
> > >> Jordan
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> > >> Of Jenine Stanley
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
> > >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> > >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >>
> > >> Thanks much Julie.
> > >>
> > >> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
> > >> without
> > >> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
> > >>
> > >> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of
> titer
> > >> tests
> > >> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100%
> proven
> > to
> > >> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is
> not
> > >> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
> > >> regarding
> > >> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most
> > cases,
> > >> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
> > >>
> > >> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie
> and
> > her
> > >> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy
> who
> > >> buys
> > >
> > >> a
> > >> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that,
> or
> > a
> > >> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet
> his
> > >> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation.
> During
> > >> that
> > >> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even
> around
> > >> the
> > >> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do
> pets
> > do?
> > >>
> > >> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm
> one
> > >> night
> > >> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come
> through
> > >> the
> > >> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline
> knew
> > >> nothing
> > >> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and
> > then
> > >> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The
> > dog
> > >> was
> > >> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they
> > screwed
> > >> up
> > >> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office
> that
> > >> the
> > >> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but
> let's
> > >> just
> > >> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
> > >>
> > >> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out
> if
> > the
> > >> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they
> > check
> > >> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
> > >> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's
> > just
> > >> say
> > >> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal
> > with
> > >> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
> > >> suspect
> > >> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
> > >>
> > >> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with
> the
> > >> least
> > >> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
> > >> licensing
> > >> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but
> I'll
> > >> need
> > >> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means
> someone
> > >> who
> > >> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to
> > travel
> > >> to
> > >> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID
> requirements.
> > >>
> > >> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less
> > paperwork
> > >> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will
> win
> > >> out.
> > >> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
> > >>
> > >> Jenine Stanley
> > >>
> jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com%3Cmailto:jeninems at wowway.com>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> > >> Of Julie J
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
> > >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >>
> > >> Jordan and Dan,
> > >>
> > >> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time
> around.
> > >> We've
> > >> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion. So
> I
> > >> guess
> > >> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
> > >>
> > >> I agree with the two of you. It isn't fair that people with guide
> > dogs
> > >> have
> > >>
> > >> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii. furthermore
> as
> > an
> > >> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to
> travel
> > to
> > >> Hawaii. I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to
> > Hawaii.
> > >>
> > >> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free. I can understand
> how
> > >> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands.
> However I
> > >> would
> > >>
> > >> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a
> titer
> > test
> > >> would be sufficient. not sure how to accomplish that without some
> > sort
> > >> of
> > >> extra paperwork requirement.
> > >>
> > >> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly
> and
> > GDUI
> > >> for working diligently to improve the situation. I don't think
> it's
> > fair
> > >> to
> > >>
> > >> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an
> incredible
> > >> leap
> > >> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii. I totally
> > >> completely
> > >> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could
> in
> > the
> > >> settlement and working on the rest later. "It is better to do
> > something
> > >> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read
> yesterday,
> > >> sorry
> > >> I can't remember whose quote it is.
> > >>
> > >> Julie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
> >
> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> > >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> > >>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Thanks Dan. You seem to be one of the few on this group who see
> > things
> > >>> the
> > >>> same way I do.
> > >>> Jordan
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> > [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >>> Behalf
> > >>> Of Dan Weiner
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
> > >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> > >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> > >>>
> > >>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
> > >>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests,
> and
> > so
> > >>> on,
> > >>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide
> dogs.
> > >>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other
> > countries.
> > >>> If
> > >>
> > >>> I
> > >>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
> > >>> forced
> > >>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a
> > dog.
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and
> what
> > I
> > >>> at
> > >>> least find objectionable.
> > >>>
> > >>> Dan W.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> nagdu mailing list
> > >>>
> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > >>>
> >
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> > >>> nagdu:
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> > >
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> > >>> l.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>>
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> > >> net
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nagdu mailing list
> > >>
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> > >>
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> > >> l.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nagdu mailing list
> > >>
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