[nagdu] Hawaii
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Dec 9 14:10:35 UTC 2010
In your opinion I see that as one scenario. However, how is it any different
from being a licensed driver? It is a stretch I know but wouldn't some
registry or certification work to ensure our access and reinforce the laws
as they stand?
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
Albert,
The examples of the Jewish people by me, the example of African American
people by Marion and the assertion by whomever that blind people carry cards
are all offensive. That's the similarity. We are choosing a class of
people, requiring things that aren't expected of the general population and
passing it off as being helpful.
It's all disgusting, offensive and a violation of human rights.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> Cheryl relax a bit there you're a little over the top there. I agree with
> you that it is a stretch to compare much if anything to that terrible time
> in our history but Julie does, in my opinion, need to apologize. How is
> what
> she said any different then the offerings of Marion suggesting that
> African
> Americans carry an id card to prove how truly African American they may or
> may not be.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of cheryl echevarria
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:28 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> What no apology, I just lost all respect now.
>
> oh some people think the Holocaust never happened. So when my great uncle
> hears this from idiots he looks at his arm, and prays in Hebrew to open
> the
> eyes of these people.
>
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
> 1-866-580-5574
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
> Inc.
>
> join my yahoogroup
>
echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe
> @yahoogroups.com>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cheryl echevarria<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>
> Thank you Albert.
>
> We have to have passports and non-driver's licenses not for showing that
> we are disabled but that we do not drive and need a government ID to show
> we
> are US Citizens, I'd rather have all these IDs than being a terrorist here
> or an illegal alien.
>
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
>
>
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/<http://echevarriatr
> avel.com%3chttp//echevarriatravel.com/>>
> 1-866-580-5574
>
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
>
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
> el.com>>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
> Inc.
>
> join my yahoogroup
>
>
echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe
>
@yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com>>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Albert J
> Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> Well what is your take on having to produce a license if you are a
> driver of
> an automobile or then again what is your take on passports and papers
> for
> that matter proving citizenship. There is no comparison to the plight
> of
> the
> holocaust in that the identification was used for genocide not for
> allowing
> equal access or ensuring that the fool behind you with his pit bull or
> his
> snake or her chicken has a valid service animal.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
>
>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
> is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:48 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Uh...no, not really. blind people are just as capable of taking a pet
> into
> public as anyone else.
>
> Having to prove my blindness and carry a card kind of reminds me of the
> stars the Jews had to wear under Hitler.
>
> The ADA clearly states that it is the training of the dog in skills
> that
>
> mitigate the handlers disability that make it a service dog.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
>
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
> 987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
> > I've changed from what I was thinking origionally. The thing that
> could
> > work, since those of us who either don't want to or don't have time
> to
>
> > train
> > our own dog, go to a school and have to present proof of disability,
> > well,
> > if those who owner train had to present proof of disability and get a
> > harness made that indicates that the animal is a service animal along
> with
> > getting an I.D. card with proof of disability, that may work. Then
> it
>
> > would
> > be quite a bit harder for someone to take a pet into a business
> especially
> > if the law was changed to reflect the above. Basically, it would
> require
> > that somewhere on the harness it indicated clearly that the dog is a
> > service
> > dog and not a pet.
> > Jordan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:21 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> > Julie,
> >
> > My thing is that I think it would be just dandy to crack down on the
> > frauds
> > when they're caught and fine them to within an inch of their lives or
> > throw
> > them in jail, stuff like that. Can't remember right now what
> penalties
> > are
> > in the law, but I'm thinking there are some.
> >
> > That way, they're cracking down on the people who are breaking the
> law
> > instead of cracking down on those who are.
> >
> > Kinda over simplistic, I know, but I get irritable over new rules to
> make
> > up
> > for the fact the existing rules aren't enforced, so people break
> them...
> > it
> > just seems silly and annoying.
> >
> > I feel a lot that way about access issues, too. If the law is there
> but
> > it
> > takes a zillion years in court to have it enforced, then I guess that
> > tells
> > me why I just need to plan to have to deal with stupid access issues
> from
> > someone who knows the law and just doesn't want to follow it. Sigh.
> >
> > Maybe my thinking is out of whack, but I seem to notice in articles
> about
> > issues in other countries, the fines are steep and are levied right
> quick
> > by
> > the relevant authorities. This doesn't seem to be the case so much
> > here...
> > I've never had to call in the authorities over an access issue (yet),
> but
> > when I get a whiff that one might be coming up, I really wonder if
> calling
> > them in will do anything to improve my situation. Depends on the
> cop,
> I
> > guess. I'm not that eager to find out how our local police do when
> > there's
> > a line-in-the-sand confrontation. I just wish I could rest assured
> about
> > the matter, just in case. /smile/
> >
> > Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Julie J
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:04 AM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> > Jordan,
> >
> > Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
> >
> > I owner train my guides. Not self train. the dog doesn't train
> itself.
> > I'm
> >
> > interested to know how certification could work.
> >
> > How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a
> > program work. What about someone who has some useable vision and
> uses
>
> > their
> >
> > dog as a low vision aid? Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?
> How
> > is
> > that going to not violate my civil rights? Who is going to pay for
> this
> > certification? How does this certification prove that in two months
> or
> > under different circumstances my dog is going to behave? What
> criteria
> > are
> > going to be used in this certification? Where is this harness going
> to
> > come
> >
> > from? Who is going to pay for it? What if it doesn't fit my needs?
> >
> > I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or
> ill
> > behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work
> while
> > respecting everyone's civil rights.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jordan Gallacher"
>
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
> 987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> >
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >
> >
> >> This is where the ADA needs to be changed. All someone can ask is
> is
>
> >> that
> >
> >> a
> >> service animal. Well, there really should be a requirement that
> even
>
> >> self
> >> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card,
> such
> as
> >> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is
> a
> >> self
> >> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
> >> working
> >> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
> >> service
> >> animal. And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask
> for
> >> documentation.
> >> Jordan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Jenine Stanley
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >> Thanks much Julie.
> >>
> >> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
> >> without
> >> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
> >>
> >> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of
> titer
> >> tests
> >> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100%
> proven
> to
> >> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is
> not
> >> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
> >> regarding
> >> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most
> cases,
> >> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
> >>
> >> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie
> and
> her
> >> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy
> who
>
> >> buys
> >
> >> a
> >> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that,
> or a
> >> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet
> his
> >> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation.
> During
>
> >> that
> >> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even
> around
> >> the
> >> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets
> do?
> >>
> >> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm
> one
> >> night
> >> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come
> through
> >> the
> >> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
> >> nothing
> >> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and
> then
> >> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The
> dog
> >> was
> >> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they
> screwed
> >> up
> >> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office
> that
> >> the
> >> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but
> let's
>
> >> just
> >> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
> >>
> >> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out
> if
> the
> >> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they
> check
> >> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
> >> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's
> just
> >> say
> >> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal
> with
> >> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
> >> suspect
> >> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
> >>
> >> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the
> >> least
> >> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
> >> licensing
> >> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but
> I'll
>
> >> need
> >> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means
> someone
> >> who
> >> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to
> travel
> >> to
> >> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
> >>
> >> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less
> paperwork
> >> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will
> win
> >> out.
> >> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
> >>
> >> Jenine Stanley
> >>
>
jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com<mailto:jeninems at wowway.com%3C
> mailto:jeninems at wowway.com>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Julie J
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >> Jordan and Dan,
> >>
> >> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
> >> We've
> >> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion. So
> I
> >> guess
> >> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
> >>
> >> I agree with the two of you. It isn't fair that people with guide
> dogs
> >> have
> >>
> >> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii. furthermore
> as an
> >> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel
> to
> >> Hawaii. I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to
> Hawaii.
> >>
> >> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free. I can understand
> how
> >> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands. However
> I
> >> would
> >>
> >> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer
> test
> >> would be sufficient. not sure how to accomplish that without some
> sort
> >> of
> >> extra paperwork requirement.
> >>
> >> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and
> GDUI
> >> for working diligently to improve the situation. I don't think it's
> fair
> >> to
> >>
> >> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an
> incredible
>
> >> leap
> >> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii. I totally
> >> completely
> >> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could
> in
> the
> >> settlement and working on the rest later. "It is better to do
> something
> >> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read
> yesterday,
> >> sorry
> >> I can't remember whose quote it is.
> >>
> >> Julie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jordan Gallacher"
>
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
> 987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> >>
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks Dan. You seem to be one of the few on this group who see
> things
> >>> the
> >>> same way I do.
> >>> Jordan
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From:
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>> Of Dan Weiner
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
> >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
> >>>
> >>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
> >>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and
> so
> >>> on,
> >>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide
> dogs.
> >>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other
> countries.
> >>> If
> >>
> >>> I
> >>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
> >>> forced
> >>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a
> dog.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and
> what
> I
> >>> at
> >>> least find objectionable.
> >>>
> >>> Dan W.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nagdu mailing list
> >>>
>
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> gdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>
>
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>
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> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >>> nagdu:
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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>
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>
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>
ai%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jgallacher1987%4
> 0gmai>>
> >>> l.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nagdu mailing list
> >>>
>
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> >>>
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> for
> >>> nagdu:
> >>>
> >>
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>
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>
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>
3Chttp://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstrea
> m>>.
> >> net
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >>
>
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> gdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >>
>
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