[nagdu] owner trained dogs

Thu Dec 9 20:16:16 UTC 2010

Albert,

Do you know of owner-trainers who have had specific difficulties with access
based on their dogs' not having certification?  I know I've heard of bumps
along the way from others I know, and I've had a few bumps that ended up
being no big deal.  I got to learn how to deal with those sorts of issues
and to better understand my legal rights and responsibilities, in case a big
hairy confrontation does come up.  I had a really confusing one involving a
language barrier and got to ask a lot of questions and get a lot of answers
about whether there was a better way I *should* have handled it.  After the
fact.  The actual incident was resolved with minor difficulty and while I
could have been snarly about a couple of points regarding my rights, I did
get what I wanted, the restaurant owner got what he wanted, my friend and I
had a good meal, and we departed the restaurant on friendly turns with the
owner, who had been willing to learn something.  So far, that's my worst
ever access issue with my owner-trained, uncertified dog.

How, then, will my going through bureaucratic rigamarole, affect access
issues for others in any way?  For that matter, how will a service dog for a
hidden disability affect my access or anyone else's just because it's not so
obvious what the dog is doing -- say with balance issues, or seizure alert
training?

And honestly, how does the presence of a companion or pet dog with manners
to match the best of guide dogs impede on our access?  Yeah, it's fraud and
it's against the law, and I don't like it much if people do that, but...
How does it affect me, or you, or anyone, really?  

So what if I decide it's mean to leave Daisy in the truck, and why can't we
take her with us into the store like I do Mitzi?  She's a prescribed
companion animal for her dad, and she has learned to do tasks to mitigate my
disability around the house, which I have specifically trained her to do.
So she's a service animal!  All I have to do is pay a fee and fill out some
paperwork and get her certified!  I'll have to give her a nice big dose of
Rescue Remedy or some sort of doggie valium to pass the test, but then we're
good to go!  Heck, she's even picked up enough guide work from watching
Mitzi (and I've clicked and treated her in harness around the house and
backyard because she just has so much fun getting to wear Mitzi's work
clothes and be as cool as Mitzi) that we might even be able to fake it
enough to get her officially declared a Real Guide Dog!

I can just hop a bus to take my newly certified service animal back home,
and maybe stop off at a nice restaurant for lunch before I grab what I need
at the grocery store...  I have a sign and a card that says she's a
certified service dog and go anywhere she likes.  If people ignore the sign
and reach out to put her about the time that doggie valium starts to wear
off...

Well, I guess then can I just shrug off what happens as their fault for
ignoring my sign?  I have a right to be there with that dog because the
gommint says so, right?  If I drop my fork, she will show me where it is and
give it to me, so I need her services.  

When I say that Daisy is a sweet dog around the house now, that does not
mean it would be even remotely responsible -- or even remotely not
completely stupid -- to put her into a position where her fear aggression
might be triggered.  Ain't no piece of paper in the world gonna change that!

So, in that case, absurd as it is, my taking my certified service dog, even
guide dog, into that restaurant or that store will sure as heck affect
everybody else's access rights, because you can be sure it would make the
papers.  Especially if some little kid I don't hear coming is the one to see
the pretty dog with the warm golden eyes and reach out while leaning down to
kiss her face...

Oh, heavens.  I was just using that as a melodramatic example, and now I
need to go find a valium for myself.  We love Daisy, but we know her.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 3:15 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] owner trained dogs

I am ok with that to tell you the truth, but it does not seem like a
position that most would support. Suffice it to say that then as the owner
trainer of a guide one could then run the gambit of proving this that or the
other to gain access to whatever or where ever they want. I however, would
not be at all bothered by offering up for consideration  a license or any
credential as I do in my professional life, in my life as a one time driver,
or in most any instance where my qualifications and certifications could be
used to streamline a process.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:57 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] owner trained dogs

Albert,
But if you're going to make owner trainers submit to a "certification  
process" then all dogs need to submit to this same process.
JMHO
Rox and the Herbal HenchHounds:
Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm  
not sure about the universe."-Albert Einstein
http://www.pawpowercreations.com
pawpower4me at gmail.com
AIM: Brissysgirl

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