[nagdu] Certification

Fri Dec 10 13:07:57 UTC 2010

Marion semantics if you ask me. how in gods name is any one ignorant person
going to be able to accept at a glance that a service animal could be
mitigating an invisible  disability? Why have to go through even a question
and answer session at all? it all comes down to how one proves his or her
dog is a service animal when others are walking into public arenas with
their family pet and passing it off as a service animal. How the registry or
some like concept would totally put an end to this droll  thread which only
serves to incite animosity between many on this group.. 

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 7:18 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] Certification

Albert,
    The error in your argument is that the DOJ does not permit an entity to 
ask for a demonstration of the work or tasks the animal performs. How would 
an individual with a seizure disorder accompanied by a service animal 
demonstrate the tasks the animal performs? Are you suggesting they should be

required to trigger a seizure just to satisfy such a requirement? The DOJ 
makes it clear what an entity can ask!

"
Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the 
animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for 
the animal or ask about the person's disability."

    As for Certification, the DOJ has already tackled the question of 
certification and it is highly unlikely there will ever be such a thing. I 
believe the only prerequisite will remain the credible assurances of the 
handler!

fraternally yours,
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii

> Marion, these are really odd comparisons. Dogs being trained or service
> animals being trained do deserve to be certified and qualified as being
> legitimate service animals to mitigate a disability. If advocate groups 
> were
> effective at defining what is or is not a legitimate service animal we 
> would
> not be discussing this. I ask you this, how is having any proof in 
> whatever
> form, available for consideration any different from what the ADA provides
> when a person questioning the authenticity of the service animal can ask 
> the
> handler to show how or what the animal does to mitigate said disability.
> Wouldn't a form of proof expedite  and alleviate the stress and strain of
> being denied access and thereby help to in fact enforce the public access
> laws and reinforce what is or is not a service animal?.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:20 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
> Julie,
>    I think you need an I.D. card to prove you are a woman protected by the
> Civil rights Act of 1964. Should a black man carry an I.D. card assuring
> those who wish to know that he is really African American. What if he is
> African Jamaican? Does he get a different card? Should my friend have her
> wheelchair certified as a legitimate wheelchair under the ADA. What about
> that guys prosthetic leg? Is it a certified leg? In that case, do I need a
> card to prove I am blind or should they just take my word for it? Where
> would it all stop?
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> Jordan,
>>
>> Okay, how is this going to work exactly?
>>
>> I owner train my guides. Not self train.  the dog doesn't train itself.
>> I'm interested to know how certification could work.
>>
>> How I work my dogs is probably different from the way the dogs from a
>> program work.  What about someone who has some useable vision and uses
>> their dog as a low vision aid?  Who is going to certify me and/or my dog?
>> How is that going to not violate my civil rights?  Who is going to pay 
>> for
>
>> this certification?  How does this certification prove that in two months
>> or under different circumstances my dog is going to behave?  What 
>> criteria
>
>> are going to be used in this certification?  Where is this harness going
>> to come from?  Who is going to pay for it?  What if it doesn't fit my
>> needs?
>>
>> I'm all for wedding out the fraudulent service dog handlers and/or ill
>> behaved service dogs, but I cannot figure out how this could work while
>> respecting everyone's civil rights.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>>
>>> This is where the ADA needs to be changed.  All someone can ask is is
>>> that a
>>> service animal.  Well, there really should be a requirement that even
>>> self
>>> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such as
>>> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a
>>> self
>>> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
>>> working
>>> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified
>>> service
>>> animal.  And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask for
>>> documentation.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jenine Stanley
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> Thanks much Julie.
>>>
>>> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
>>> without
>>> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>>>
>>> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
>>> tests
>>> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven to
>>> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
>>> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
>>> regarding
>>> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most cases,
>>> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>>>
>>> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and 
>>> her
>>> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who
>>> buys a
>>> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or a
>>> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
>>> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During
>>> that
>>> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around
>>> the
>>> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets do?
>>>
>>> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one
>>> night
>>> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through
>>> the
>>> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
>>> nothing
>>> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and then
>>> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The dog
>>> was
>>> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they 
>>> screwed
>
>>> up
>>> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that
>>> the
>>> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's
>>> just
>>> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>>>
>>> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if 
>>> the
>>> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they check
>>> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
>>> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's just
>>> say
>>> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal with
>>> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
>>> suspect
>>> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>>>
>>> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the
>>> least
>>> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
>>> licensing
>>> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll
>>> need
>>> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone
>>> who
>>> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to 
>>> travel
>
>>> to
>>> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>>>
>>> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less paperwork
>>> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win
>>> out.
>>> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> Jordan and Dan,
>>>
>>> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
>>> We've
>>> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion.  So I
>>> guess
>>> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>>>
>>> I agree with the two of you.  It isn't fair that people with guide dogs
>>> have
>>>
>>> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii.  furthermore as 
>>> an
>>> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel to
>>> Hawaii.  I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to Hawaii.
>>>
>>> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free.  I can understand how
>>> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands.  However I
>>> would
>>>
>>> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer 
>>> test
>>> would be sufficient.  not sure how to accomplish that without some sort
>>> of
>>> extra paperwork requirement.
>>>
>>> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and 
>>> GDUI
>>> for working diligently to improve the situation.  I don't think it's 
>>> fair
>
>>> to
>>>
>>> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible
>>> leap
>>> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii.  I totally
>>> completely
>>> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in 
>>> the
>>> settlement and working on the rest later.   "It is better to do 
>>> something
>>> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
>>> sorry
>>> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks Dan.   You seem to be one of the few on this group who see 
>>>> things
>>>> the
>>>> same way I do.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>
>>>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>>>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and so
>>>> on,
>>>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>>>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other countries.
>>>> If
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be
>>>> forced
>>>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a dog.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what I
>>>> at
>>>> least find objectionable.
>>>>
>>>> Dan W.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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