[nagdu] Hawaii

Julie J julielj at windstream.net
Fri Dec 10 13:10:12 UTC 2010 

Marion,

Awesome!  I think this will be a very powerful shift in thinking.  I'm proud 
to be a part of an organization that is working diligently to change what it 
means to be blind!

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii


> Julie,
>    It is my experience that guide dog training programs, in general,  hold 
> biases about such issues and have a very limited understanding of the 
> legal issues surrounding service animal access. Furthermore, I find that 
> many guide dog users have a very paternalistic view of the training 
> programs, believing that they should submit to them and should allow them 
> to have the ultimate, absolute right to do whatever they wish for whatever 
> reason they provide. One of the goals of my administration is to help 
> guide dog users understand that they are really consumers, not 
> beneficiaries, of guide dog training programs and should demand to be 
> treated as such. This includes the right of ownership and the right to be 
> left alone by the programs unless we initiate the contact.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>
>
>> Jordan,
>>
>> I appreciate that you want to help, but quite honestly you are not 
>> impressing me.  In the message below you say that you are going to 
>> contact people that are in a position to help all of us especially the 
>> guide dog schools.  so which is it?  All of us or the guide dog programs? 
>> I'd like to think that I count as "one of us" and I'm not affiliated with 
>> any guide dog program.  I'm not the only blind person to train their own 
>> guide dog.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>  From: "Jordan Gallacher"
>> <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>
>>
>>> Eitehr do that or find another way to stop the fraud that does happen. I
>>> will start contacting other who are in a position to make which is in 
>>> the
>>> best interest of us all, and especially guide dog school.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:15 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>> Jordan,
>>>    This will never happen and, if it does, NAGDU would oppose it! There 
>>> are
>>>
>>> provisions in place to protect the public and we have too many
>>> owner-trainers for such governmental impositions!
>>>
>>> fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is where the ADA needs to be changed.  All someone can ask is is 
>>>> that
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> service animal.  Well, there really should be a requirement that even 
>>>> self
>>>> trained service animals are licensed with an official i.d. card, such 
>>>> as
>>>> something that states that it is a service animal. And two, if it is a
>>>> self
>>>> trained animal, you should need to have the dog pass an examination,
>>>> working
>>>> wise, and then issued a harness that says something like certified 
>>>> service
>>>> animal.  And also, the ADA should be changed to allow someone to ask 
>>>> for
>>>> documentation.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jenine Stanley
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>
>>>> Thanks much Julie.
>>>>
>>>> I think we would all like to simply travel to anywhere in the world
>>>> without
>>>> restrictions but reality doesn't always permit that.
>>>>
>>>> The reason there are in fact such requirements as submission of titer
>>>> tests
>>>> and a health certificate is that the vaccine has not been 100% proven 
>>>> to
>>>> prevent Rabies. In the opinion of the Hawaiian government, this is not
>>>> sufficient to insure the safety of the state. Although federal law
>>>> regarding
>>>> access rights and other civil rights does trump state law in most 
>>>> cases,
>>>> when it comes to public health, things get messy.
>>>>
>>>> The other issue rearing its ugly head is fraud. We all know Julie and 
>>>> her
>>>> dog and that she is a competent owner-trainer. What about the guy who 
>>>> buys
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> harness on line, and there are lots of places one can do just that, or 
>>>> a
>>>> service dog vest or patches, and calls his well behaved family pet his
>>>> service dog, just so it can go to Hawaii with him on vacation. During 
>>>> that
>>>> vacation, the dog is allowed to run on the beach and maybe even around 
>>>> the
>>>> time share property freely as a pet, because after all, what do pets 
>>>> do?
>>>>
>>>> This scenario did actually play out. I got a phone call at 11:00pm one
>>>> night
>>>> from someone in the Hawaii Quarantine office. Someone had come through 
>>>> the
>>>> airport with a dog claiming it was a guide dog, but the airline knew
>>>> nothing
>>>> about it, allowed the person on the plane, big no-no to start, and then
>>>> didn't notify the quarantine office about the person's arrival. The dog
>>>> was
>>>> not a guide and was never tracked down. The airline admitted they 
>>>> screwed
>>>> up
>>>> in not asking any questions, but did assure the quarantine office that 
>>>> the
>>>> person wasn't blind. How they knew this is a mystery to me, but let's 
>>>> just
>>>> say the Hawaiian government was not happy.
>>>>
>>>> The reason I got this call was that they were trying to figure out if 
>>>> the
>>>> guide dog schools or GDUI kept a registry of people and could they 
>>>> check
>>>> names against it. I said that each school had a list of its active
>>>> graduates, but they'd have to call each one to find this out. Let's 
>>>> just
>>>> say
>>>> that time was of the essence and they were not in the mood to deal with
>>>> this. It happened shortly after the settlement went into place so I
>>>> suspect
>>>> someone read all the PR articles and thought, ehy, let me try this.
>>>>
>>>> Though I'd love to have a way for people to get into Hawaii with the 
>>>> least
>>>> amount of paperwork, some is going to be necessary. I think local
>>>> licensing
>>>> as an assistance dog will work in terms of proof of identity but I'll 
>>>> need
>>>> to check that one out. Local licensing is about the only means someone 
>>>> who
>>>> owner trains has of proof of identity anyway if he or she wants to 
>>>> travel
>>>> to
>>>> another country that has such a quarantine or other ID requirements.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that as budgets tighten around the country, the less 
>>>> paperwork
>>>> required and the less staff time required to achieve anything will win
>>>> out.
>>>> So, you never know what or how the requirements will be changed.
>>>>
>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:13 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>
>>>> Jordan and Dan,
>>>>
>>>> I have pretty well stayed out of the Hawaii debate this time around.
>>>> We've
>>>> talked about it in the past and I've been free with my opinion.  So I
>>>> guess
>>>> I'll throw caution to the wind and share my thoughts. *smile*
>>>>
>>>> I agree with the two of you.  It isn't fair that people with guide dogs
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> to go through so many extra steps to travel to Hawaii.  furthermore as 
>>>> an
>>>> owner trainer, I am unsure that it is even possible for me to travel to
>>>> Hawaii.  I am very much in favor of improving ease of travel to Hawaii.
>>>>
>>>> but I'm also torn because Hawaii is rabies free.  I can understand how
>>>> devastating it would be to introduce rabies to the islands.  However I
>>>> would
>>>>
>>>> think that proof of the vaccine or proof of immunity through a titer 
>>>> test
>>>> would be sufficient.  not sure how to accomplish that without some sort 
>>>> of
>>>> extra paperwork requirement.
>>>>
>>>> I would also like to acknowledge the great work Of Jenine Stanly and 
>>>> GDUI
>>>> for working diligently to improve the situation.  I don't think it's 
>>>> fair
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> expect massive social change overnight, but Jenine made an incredible 
>>>> leap
>>>> forward from where things were previously in Hawaii.  I totally 
>>>> completely
>>>> agree with her when she talked about getting as much as they could in 
>>>> the
>>>> settlement and working on the rest later.   "It is better to do 
>>>> something
>>>> imperfectly than nothing perfectly." that's a quote I read yesterday,
>>>> sorry
>>>> I can't remember whose quote it is.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:51 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Dan.   You seem to be one of the few on this group who see 
>>>>> things
>>>>> the
>>>>> same way I do.
>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 8:15 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hawaii
>>>>>
>>>>> What is of concern to me, Dan, anyway, is that we have to show any
>>>>> paperwork, have international health certificates, blood tests, and so
>>>>> on,
>>>>> for a state of the USA in order to be accompanied by our guide dogs.
>>>>> This is something I've only had to do when I travel to other 
>>>>> countries.
>>>>> If
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> had to do this every time I traveled to another state here, I'd be 
>>>>> forced
>>>>> not to bring my dog with me often and I'm a safer traveler with a dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know it may never be resolved, but that's my opinion and what I 
>>>>> at
>>>>> least find objectionable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan W.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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