[nagdu] First Amendment (was "To Jordan", etc.)

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Fri Dec 10 18:05:58 UTC 2010 

Atually, the First Amendment doesn't even apply here. The administrators of the list can allow or disallow any speech they like; see the beginning of the amendment, "Congress shall not...", doesn't say a thing about private parties. In other words, you're allowed to say anything you like, but we're not obligated to give you a platform. 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:

> Jordan,
> 
> The First Amendment gives you the right of free speech, as well to express
> your opinion. But the First Amendment DOES not give you the right to tell
> others their opinions are wrong. If you would like to read below, as I have
> included our first Amendment: 
> 
> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
> prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
> or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
> petition the Government for a redress of grievances" 
> 
> Now with that said, you have been asked numerous times to be nice, and to
> respect others. If a moderator tells you to do such, then it is in your best
> advice to do such. I am frankly getting tired of your disrespectful
> attitude. 
> 
> Marsha Drenth
> List Moderator 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Jordan Gallacher
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:15 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus
> driverthatisnotanaccessiblebus just regular bus
> 
> 1st amendment righ to tell people that I think they have a wrong opinion.
> Jordan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:56 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driverthatisnotanaccessible
> bus just regular bus
> 
> Jordan,
> 
> Perhaps instead of:
> *Wrong about that.  *
> 
> try
> I disagree with that
> or
> I think that businesses should...
> 
> It's fine to disagree.  I'm just asking that we respect others opinions. 
> that is easily accomplished with the simple practice of beginning sentences 
> with the word "I".  also please refrain from telling others that their 
> opinions are wrong.
> 
> thanks!
> Julie
> NAGDU list moderator
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver 
> thatisnotanaccessible bus just regular bus
> 
> 
>> Wrong about that.  If a business doesn't take appropriate measures and the
>> pet remains in the business, then the business is accountable, of course
>> this only works if things change to where you have to be able to identify
>> that the dog is indeed a service animal.  Problem is that the majority of
>> businesses don't ask.
>> Jordan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:50 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that
>> isnotanaccessible bus just regular bus
>> 
>> Jordan, If my dog becomes distracted and I get hurt, it's not anyone's 
>> falt
>> but mine for not training the dog to ignore distractions. If a program did
>> the training and I didn't keep that training up it would still be my falt.
>> If it can be proved that the program wasn't thorough enough in their
>> training, then perhaps it could be their falt.  But if someone brings a 
>> pet
>> dog into public it is reasonable for my dog to keep working.  She may
>> require some redirection from me but that should be all.
>> 
>> Rox
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 10 Dec 2010, at 08:35 AM, "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> No, no, no.  If it is a pet, and it is being passed off as a service
>> animal,
>>> then there needs to be evidence of such use.  If it is a pet, and the
>>> business doesn't make it leave, and a person who has a legit service
>> animal
>>> gets injured in the business because his dog gets distracted, guess who 
>>> is
>>> liable.
>>> Jordan
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:31 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that isnot
>>> anaccessible bus just regular bus
>>> 
>>> Jenine,
>>>   As it was stated by a DOJ Senior Trial Attorney during one of my many
>>> discussions concerning this that helped me better understand this issue
>>> while I was grappling with it, "If someone gains access with a pet that
>> they
>>> 
>>> are claiming to be a service animal and it is well behaved and causes no
>>> threat to the health or safety of others, what harm has been done? On the
>>> other hand, even a legitimate service animal that is a threat or is
>>> disruptive can be removed!"
>>> 
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not
>>> anaccessible bus just regular bus
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Cheryl,
>>>> 
>>>> All the bus driver can ask are the two questions specified by the DOJ.
>>>> 
>>>> Is that a service animal to assist with your disability?
>>>> What tasks does that animal perform?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If the dog is disruptive and has a history of being so on buses, then it
>>>> can
>>>> be banned from the buses all together. The person cannot be banned but
>> the
>>>> dog can, so if she leaves the dog at home, she can still ride.
>>>> 
>>>> If a dog gets on the bus with someone and that person says it's a 
>>>> service
>>>> animal and the dog doesn't bother anyone, then there's nothing to be
>> done.
>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of cheryl echevarria
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:38 PM
>>>> To: nagdu
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not an
>>>> accessible bus just regular bus
>>>> 
>>>> As many of you know I live out in Long Island, NY not to far from GDF.
>>>> 
>>>> And there has been a person, who swears that there dog is a guide dog,
>>>> meaning a pit bull.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know if Jeanine knows about this issue.  But here on Long 
>>>> Island,
>> 
>>>> I
>>>> believe every year the Suffolk County Bus Company for there drivers that
>>>> is
>>>> called sensitivity training.
>>>> 
>>>> I wish they would allow me to come as well as being part of NAGDU, and
>>>> have
>>>> a representative from GDF as well as the other service animal schools in
>>>> the
>>>> area.
>>>> 
>>>> One day, I was a passenger on the bus when this person tried to pass off
>>>> there dog as a service animal, again this dog is a pit bull.
>>>> 
>>>> I was sitting there and the driver said that we are stopping and the
>>>> person
>>>> has a dog and has tried to get on the bus before the driver side to me,
>>>> they
>>>> don't carry a card with them, but they carry the print out of the ADA 
>>>> law
>>>> with them.
>>>> 
>>>> I will tell you what happened, and then I will put what the driver's
>>>> question is.
>>>> 
>>>> First when the driver stopped and the woman tried to get on the bus, now
>>>> mind you I sit in the front because I like to talk to my driver as well.
>>>> Nice guy, many years he has been the driver, anyway she tries to get on
>>>> but
>>>> her dog starts to growl and bark at my dog.  Maxx moved closer to me not
>>>> wanting anything to do with this dog.
>>>> 
>>>> I asked her what type of dog is that, she said a pit bull, no I said
>>>> meaning
>>>> what kind of service animal is it.  She said he was just a service 
>>>> animal
>>>> and that she has the paperwork to prove it. I said what job does the dog
>>>> do
>>>> for you, I didn't say what disability she has.  She said he is her
>> comfort
>>>> animal.  I said 1, Comfort animals are not considered Service Animals 
>>>> and
>>>> fall under the ADA. 2. In the State of NY, especially Suffolk County NY,
>>>> and
>>>> some other parts of NY to even have a pit bull, and that I am blind and 
>>>> a
>>>> graduate of GDF I said which school, and I pulled out my ID from GDF, I
>> do
>>>> not need to carry paperwork around with me and never should she. From my
>>>> searching I have found that especially in the state of NY there is no
>>>> service animal training schools that train pit bulls. I asked her where
>>>> she
>>>> got her dog, she said NY.
>>>> 
>>>> The driver asked her to please leave if she could not control her dog.
>>>> 
>>>> A few months later she tried to get on another bus and the driver let 
>>>> her
>>>> on.
>>>> 
>>>> The driver and I spoke the other day since I had to go somewhere, that
>> she
>>>> tried to get on again on his bus, and he said he wouldn't allow the dog
>> on
>>>> the bus.
>>>> 
>>>> The driver wants to know how far are they allowed to go to stop this.
>>>> 
>>>> To many people are trying this in Suffolk County.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes we get IDs and I don't know what the big deal is about giving ID, I
>>>> think that helps a lot, especially in the case that it is not always
>>>> obvious
>>>> to lets say in this situation to tell if someone is disabled and needs a
>>>> dog, I mean if a person is blind it is not always noticeable, not
>> everyone
>>>> uses dark glasses, or has a dog with a harness with the schools name on
>>>> it,
>>>> or a person in a wheelchair, and with more children and adult with
>>>> seizures
>>>> or autism or other disabilities how is one to know.  You can't ask what
>>>> the
>>>> disability you have, you can't force a person to show ID.  What is the
>>>> answer?
>>>> 
>>>> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>>>> 
>>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>>> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
>>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>>> 
>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>>> CST-1018299-10
>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
>>>> Inc.
>>>> 
>>>> join my yahoogroup
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe
>>>> @yahoogroups.com>
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