[nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver thatisnotanaccessible bus just regular bus

Jordan Gallacher jgallacher1987 at gmail.com
Fri Dec 10 18:33:01 UTC 2010


Kid distraction and my first dog was quite interesting.  I had one time
where we were crossing a street and he decided to start dragging me toward
the kids.  I had an instructor with me that day, and he had me distracted by
what he was saying.  I'm glad he caught the dog doing that and got the
dogs's attention.  I don't think I'd be here if he hadn't done that.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:28 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver
thatisnotanaccessible bus just regular bus

Rox,

Yeah.  Doing the training when the dog is young and easily distractable
requires a fair amount of patience, but it is well worth it.  /lol/  When
Mitzi and I were working on the distractability phases (she went through a
few), every now and then someone would apologize because their dog
distracted mine...

"No!" I would say distractedly.  "In fact, thank you!  We need to work on
this.  I'm so happy your dog is such a great training opportunity!"  /lol/
I meant every word, too.  I can only imagine that a number of people in my
neighborhood and surrounds were convinced I was a complete nut case.  I do
find that if Mitzi and I haven't been working enough in areas where there
are dog distractions to practice on regularly, I get opportunities to do
review when we do encounter one.  But she's grown up enough now that it just
takes a reminder and c/t, and we're good.  /smile/

We get practice downtown at passing lunging snarling dogs because of all the
street people who have them for protection.  But the street people (the new
middle class!) are surprisingly good about letting me know they're there and
telling me they have their dog under control and how they're doing it while
Mitzi and I pass.  Don't like the sound, but the lunge is never completed,
so it's not a big deal.

For some reason, the respectable citizens with such dogs -- and yes, even
program-trained service dogs -- are not so responsible in my experience.
I've never had an Incident or Event, but a couple of times I have had
greater feelings of nervousness than I've had on the downtown sidewalks.
Um...  You're doing something about that, right?  Why is your dog still
here, making those noises and motions at my dog?

While we were working through Mitzi's obnoxious problem, I would at least
haul her away from the other dog, since mine was the one causing a problem
for the other person.  She should never have caused the problem in the first
place, which was my bad for having her in that environment when she wasn't
ready.  Then again, while I'm thrilled we got it worked out because I love
having her as a guide dog, I wonder how many more years it will be before I
get over being furious with her over that?  /lol/  So what if it was
entirely my fault?  I'm still mad at her!

Working through kid distractions was a problem, because Mitzi used to fear
them more than the biggest most aggressive dog ever!  And they *always* go
nuts over the curls.  Well, I guess kids go nuts over dogs anyway, but they
seem to gravitate towards my poodle even when there are other dogs around.
So I really had to work with Mitzi to convince her that a mere look of
interest from a small human was not her cue to spin around and go the other
direction.  /lol/  I once had a toddler chase us around in circles because I
was standing firm to keep Mitzi from bolting (it was crowded and noisy, so I
had no idea why we were suddenly playing whirlygig) and she just kept
running from the kid.  Once I figured out the source of terrible danger we
were fleeing from, I had a heck of a time, because it was too noisy to get
the parents' attention (they got back to the kid anyway; she was only taken
advantage of a momentary distraction on their part) and the kid sure wasn't
interested in my feelings about what she should or shouldn't do, and I kept
brushing her tiny, tiny arm but didn't want to grab her because I might hurt
her since I couldn't really see to get a nice gentle grip.  Also, I seemed
to be attached to helicopter rotor, which made it difficult to go for a
successful child grab.  /lol/  A couple of days later we saw what had to be
the same kid, I'm sure, and Mitzi nearly bolted again.  She wanted to, but
didn't.  When I realized where she was looking, I could just make out a tiny
tiny child struggling valiantly to escape from its parent to make headway
toward my terrified poodle.  This time, the parent was onto the kid and just
restrained her gently, so I was able to calm Mitzi and convince her there
was no real danger.  Or at least, I convinced her to act like it.

I used to have every kid we ran across give her treats (with the parent's
permission, of course!) while we did soothing introductions, and then Mitzi
started a phase where she would see a kid and think, "Treat!"  Now she grins
at them and moves on, and I don't even notice when a kid reaches out of a
grocery cart to touch the curls unless I hear the mom reprimand the kid or
somebody tells me about it.  Whew!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:50 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that
isnotanaccessible bus just regular bus

Jordan, If my dog becomes distracted and I get hurt, it's not anyone's falt
but mine for not training the dog to ignore distractions. If a program did
the training and I didn't keep that training up it would still be my falt.
If it can be proved that the program wasn't thorough enough in their
training, then perhaps it could be their falt.  But if someone brings a pet
dog into public it is reasonable for my dog to keep working.  She may
require some redirection from me but that should be all. 

Rox 
Sent from my iPhone

On 10 Dec 2010, at 08:35 AM, "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No, no, no.  If it is a pet, and it is being passed off as a service
animal,
> then there needs to be evidence of such use.  If it is a pet, and the
> business doesn't make it leave, and a person who has a legit service
animal
> gets injured in the business because his dog gets distracted, guess who is
> liable.
> Jordan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:31 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that isnot
> anaccessible bus just regular bus
> 
> Jenine,
>    As it was stated by a DOJ Senior Trial Attorney during one of my many 
> discussions concerning this that helped me better understand this issue 
> while I was grappling with it, "If someone gains access with a pet that
they
> 
> are claiming to be a service animal and it is well behaved and causes no 
> threat to the health or safety of others, what harm has been done? On the 
> other hand, even a legitimate service animal that is a threat or is 
> disruptive can be removed!"
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not 
> anaccessible bus just regular bus
> 
> 
>> Cheryl,
>> 
>> All the bus driver can ask are the two questions specified by the DOJ.
>> 
>> Is that a service animal to assist with your disability?
>> What tasks does that animal perform?
>> 
>> 
>> If the dog is disruptive and has a history of being so on buses, then it 
>> can
>> be banned from the buses all together. The person cannot be banned but
the
>> dog can, so if she leaves the dog at home, she can still ride.
>> 
>> If a dog gets on the bus with someone and that person says it's a service
>> animal and the dog doesn't bother anyone, then there's nothing to be
done.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:38 PM
>> To: nagdu
>> Subject: [nagdu] questions I get from my bus driver that is not an
>> accessible bus just regular bus
>> 
>> As many of you know I live out in Long Island, NY not to far from GDF.
>> 
>> And there has been a person, who swears that there dog is a guide dog,
>> meaning a pit bull.
>> 
>> I don't know if Jeanine knows about this issue.  But here on Long Island,

>> I
>> believe every year the Suffolk County Bus Company for there drivers that 
>> is
>> called sensitivity training.
>> 
>> I wish they would allow me to come as well as being part of NAGDU, and 
>> have
>> a representative from GDF as well as the other service animal schools in 
>> the
>> area.
>> 
>> One day, I was a passenger on the bus when this person tried to pass off
>> there dog as a service animal, again this dog is a pit bull.
>> 
>> I was sitting there and the driver said that we are stopping and the 
>> person
>> has a dog and has tried to get on the bus before the driver side to me, 
>> they
>> don't carry a card with them, but they carry the print out of the ADA law
>> with them.
>> 
>> I will tell you what happened, and then I will put what the driver's
>> question is.
>> 
>> First when the driver stopped and the woman tried to get on the bus, now
>> mind you I sit in the front because I like to talk to my driver as well.
>> Nice guy, many years he has been the driver, anyway she tries to get on 
>> but
>> her dog starts to growl and bark at my dog.  Maxx moved closer to me not
>> wanting anything to do with this dog.
>> 
>> I asked her what type of dog is that, she said a pit bull, no I said 
>> meaning
>> what kind of service animal is it.  She said he was just a service animal
>> and that she has the paperwork to prove it. I said what job does the dog 
>> do
>> for you, I didn't say what disability she has.  She said he is her
comfort
>> animal.  I said 1, Comfort animals are not considered Service Animals and
>> fall under the ADA. 2. In the State of NY, especially Suffolk County NY, 
>> and
>> some other parts of NY to even have a pit bull, and that I am blind and a
>> graduate of GDF I said which school, and I pulled out my ID from GDF, I
do
>> not need to carry paperwork around with me and never should she. From my
>> searching I have found that especially in the state of NY there is no
>> service animal training schools that train pit bulls. I asked her where 
>> she
>> got her dog, she said NY.
>> 
>> The driver asked her to please leave if she could not control her dog.
>> 
>> A few months later she tried to get on another bus and the driver let her
>> on.
>> 
>> The driver and I spoke the other day since I had to go somewhere, that
she
>> tried to get on again on his bus, and he said he wouldn't allow the dog
on
>> the bus.
>> 
>> The driver wants to know how far are they allowed to go to stop this.
>> 
>> To many people are trying this in Suffolk County.
>> 
>> Yes we get IDs and I don't know what the big deal is about giving ID, I
>> think that helps a lot, especially in the case that it is not always 
>> obvious
>> to lets say in this situation to tell if someone is disabled and needs a
>> dog, I mean if a person is blind it is not always noticeable, not
everyone
>> uses dark glasses, or has a dog with a harness with the schools name on 
>> it,
>> or a person in a wheelchair, and with more children and adult with 
>> seizures
>> or autism or other disabilities how is one to know.  You can't ask what 
>> the
>> disability you have, you can't force a person to show ID.  What is the
>> answer?
>> 
>> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>> 
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 1-866-580-5574
>> 
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>> 
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
>> CST-1018299-10
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel 
>> Inc.
>> 
>> join my yahoogroup
>> 
>
echevarriatravel-subscribe at yahoogroups.com<mailto:echevarriatravel-subscribe
>> @yahoogroups.com>
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