[nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

Thu Dec 16 19:24:11 UTC 2010

Buddy, I believe we're both playing in the same band.  And golly gee, can 
anyone blame a man who was named after the first Seeing Eye dog (and that 
was a shepherd too) for being cautious?

Doug: Shepherd's pie anyone?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers

> You're not missing anything I'm not missing, because I basically agree 
> with you. I'm just saying that this is historically where the no contact 
> thing comes from. And, like I said, there's a lot of difference between 
> not encouraging contact and actively blocking it. That the Seeing Eye is 
> the oldest guide dog school in the world is one of those good news/bad 
> news things. Good because they have that 80-odd years of experience. Bad 
> because sometimes they are slow to change. Sometimes even slow to change 
> is good, because change isn't always great, and doing the latest thing 
> because it's the latest thing isn't always a good idea, but at other 
> times, well, not so much.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) (Internet) wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure I really understand Seeing Eye's position.
>> Why can't or won't they trust everybody to be adults. If a raiser or 
>> handler has an issue with a type of contact, why can't it be sorted out 
>> via the legal system or in all the myraid ways unwanted contact is made 
>> to stop.
>> It seems like that is only logical given that Seeing Eye places such 
>> trust in the grads' abilities to manage their dogs.
>> I'm not sure I'm buying the "But what if" senario. I also don't 
>> understand why Seeing Eye can't place the same trust in appropriate 
>> contact and use the same resolution plan for when contact is 
>> inappropriate it uses for dog issues.
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:36 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
>>
>> Oh goody! Another hot button issue! Yay!!!!
>>
>> I completely understand the reasons for the TSE puppy raiser contact 
>> policy. I understand the historic significance, and also the other 
>> reason, i.e. you're raising a dog for the school, not for a specific 
>> person, doing something for the greater good as it were, a wider cause 
>> than one specific individual. And that's all fantastic, and I agree with 
>> the motives and the reasoning. Do I wish that the policy would be 
>> modified? Certainly; I'd love to have contact with Leon's raisers. Will I 
>> lose sleep over it that I don't? Not especially. While I understand not 
>> actively facilitating contact, the practice of editing letters between 
>> the parties is something I have issues with, even though I understand 
>> why. I think, basically, it's one thing to not encourage contact, but 
>> quite another to block it between consenting parties. Assuming of course 
>> both parties are consenting. It's certainly not as easy an issue as we 
>> might like to believe.
>>
>> I had contact with my first dog's raiser, from a school that isn't the 
>> Seeing Eye. The Ripkens are wonderful people, and we still stay in touch 
>> some even today, over 13 years later. Many relationships are like this. 
>> Not all, though; there are cases such as Jenine has mentioned. There are 
>> others where raisers in one way or another interfere with the team. 
>> Conversely, I'm aware of cases where handlers inappropriately relate to 
>> their dog's raisers, some in the ways Jenine has outlined, other times 
>> inappropriately imposing upon the raiser in some way. So it's definitely 
>> not always great, either. Does that mean that the schools need to 
>> chaperone these relationships because some might e inappropriate? Again, 
>> this isn't nearly so easy and clear cut as some would have it.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2010, at 4:59 PM, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>>
>>> Although GDF does allow contact with puppy raisers/walker, I do feel the
>>> need to defend TSE's no-contact policy. It has nothing, absolutely 
>>> nothing,
>>> to do with you being an adult. It's about the principle of anonymous 
>>> giving,
>>> selfless giving.
>>>
>>> I've been in a workshop where a puppy raiser actually said "I raised 
>>> these
>>> dogs. I'm entitled to pet them whenever I want. You people are too mean 
>>> to
>>> them, never write back and don't deserve them."
>>>
>>> The man who said this totally embarrassed his family and does not 
>>> represent
>>> all puppy raisers/walkers, but his opinion, or variations thereof, are 
>>> out
>>> there and make up the wide reasons people do raise puppies.
>>>
>>> Also, not everything your dog does now is a result of things it did as a
>>> puppy or was illegally allowed to do. I've heard from puppy walkers who 
>>> were
>>> crushed when hearing about their dogs' behavior as guides and were 
>>> berated
>>> by the handlers for allowing X, Y or Z when they did no such thing.
>>>
>>> I think those who have issue with TSE's puppy contact policy should read 
>>> in
>>> the literature exactly why it was established. It screams respect for 
>>> the
>>> adult nature of blind people.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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