[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers

GARY STEEVES rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca
Thu Dec 23 00:11:21 UTC 2010


Hi Jeanine :

Yes, good old poodles. This wasn't done with Bogart, or as you say, they are hand shy. He often comes back to me but I still seem to have to be reaching/feeling around in the air to find him. He seems to have this three foot rule. If I drop the leash or harness he will stop immediately but always seems to be about 3 feet from me. If I call him back he seems to stay about 3 feet from  me. If he is fetching a ball he seems to drop it about 3  feet or so from where I'm standing. (easy to see how that would be a problem :)

I think the next thing we are going to try and train him is to find his toys before he leaves a park.  I almost lost his frisbee once but just as we were walking away he started pulling to my left so I went with it. we ended up at the lost frisbee. However, when my girlfriend took him for a walk to the park last week because I had a gig I was at, they lost his favourite bouncy ball. It is always  nice to know that some things he does are just poodle tendancies. :)

Gary


----- Original Message -----
From: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at wowway.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re:  contact with puppy raisers/walkers
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> I believe our puppy walkers use food initially then simply 
> praise to reward
> the behavior of touching when the dog is called to you. They 
> start this
> extremely early though. 
> 
> Some dogs, like Poodles, can be hand shy so getting them used to 
> touchingand being touched early really helps us. My poor Doodle 
> didn't have this
> early training and hence never really did come to touch me when 
> called. 
> 
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> 
> Hi Janine,
> Interesting about what the GDF does nowadays. I got my first two 
> dogs there 
> and I had to retire the first one because of relieving 
> issues.  She wouldn't
> 
> want to do Number 2 when I took her to go.  So, she held it 
> and held it as 
> long as she could and that resulted in her dumping like a horse 
> as wwe 
> walked along.  People would yell at me for it but it was 
> already trailed 
> along the walkway and couldn't see it to pick it up.  So, I 
> couldn't ever 
> stop this behavior in that dog and had tp retire her.
> 
> My question to you is:  How do you teach the dog to touch 
> you when you ask 
> it to come to you?  Landon comes but not touch me or is a 
> few feet from me. 
> I tap my leg and he does come closer.
> 
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> 
> 
> > Lynne,
> >
> > Good questions. Also, dogs go through several fear periods as 
> puppies so 
> > if
> > you asked your dog's raiser if the dog was ever afraid of X, Y 
> or Z, the
> > answer night be yes, depending on where that experience fell 
> in its
> > development.
> >
> >
> > As for leash relieving, I can only speak for GDF but our puppy 
> manual and
> > all Area Coordinators teach raisers to relieve the dogs on 
> leash, on
> > concrete and if that's not possible, on a variety of surfaces 
> other than
> > grass. We know that some raisers are more diligent about this 
> than others
> > but we saw a huge improvement in leash relieving issues once 
> this was 
> > really
> > stressed to raisers.
> >
> > I'm excited because on January 9 I'll be meeting with the 
> puppy group that
> > was part of Swap's upbringing, and staying with his puppy 
> walker in
> > Lakeland, Florida. She's raised I believe around 15 pups now 
> and the group
> > is quite active. It will be fun for them to see a working dog 
> and fun for 
> > us
> > to see all those puppies in various stages of development.
> >
> > I agree that it's important for puppy groups and individuals 
> to see blind
> > people and how we actually work with our dogs.
> >
> > GDF is also stressing that dogs touch handlers when returning 
> on the come
> > command. This is probably pretty standard and one of those no-
> brainer> things, but wow, what a difference once it was really 
> stressed in the 
> > puppy
> > homes.
> >
> > Jenine Stanley
> > jeninems at wowway.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Lyn Gwizdak
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:33 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> >
> > Thanks, Janine.
> >
> > I'm wondering if the things people blame on puppy raisers 
> reflect on the
> > fact that most people really don't know exactly what it is the 
> raisers do
> > with the puppies to make them guide dog training ready.
> >
> > Yeah, folks know that the raisers house train and leash train 
> the pups.
> > they bring them out into all sorts of human envirnment to get 
> them used to
> > our world of humans that the adult guide will work in.  
> It is theory and 
> > not
> >
> > actual concrete things we hear about what is actually done 
> with the pups 
> > to
> > get them ready for us. For example, what are the raisers 
> teaching the pups
> > in regards to leash relieving?  Most people take their 
> dogs for a walk
> > allowing the dog to pee or poop whereever they choose while on 
> that walk.
> > Blind people with guide dogs have a spot and stand there with 
> the dog 
> > being
> > allowed to choose the elimiation spots only within the radius 
> of the 
> > leash.
> > I have had dogs who have a difficult time with relieving on 
> leash in one
> > place - particularly to do Number 2.  I wonder if that 
> dog was walked on
> > leash in the manner that most pet dogs do.
> >
> > I have heard about things because I see the puppy raisers at 
> our annual
> > event here. I also have good friends who have raised a 
> puppy.  Likewise, 
> > the
> >
> > raisers don't really get to see many blind guide dog users and 
> what we do
> > and how we do it.
> >
> > So, there is a need for the raisers and users to get together 
> to share our
> > stories in other ways if our schools don't have the raisers 
> meet their 
> > dog's
> >
> > recipient as many schools do.
> >
> > Lyn and Landon
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users'"> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> >
> >
> >> Rebecca,
> >>
> >> I think you are correct to an extent, especially about 
> changing policies
> >> from within, but one thing to remember is that puppies change 
> a great 
> >> deal
> >> over the time they are with their raisers, just like your own 
> child. Some
> >> things they do are predictable, some behaviors can be shaped, 
> stopped or
> >> yes, in some cases encouraged.
> >>
> >> Would you want someone comparing your daughter at age 5 to 
> her adult self
> >> and asking why you let her do X, Y or Z?
> >>
> >> I hear a lot of people saying that behaviors they observe in 
> their dogs 
> >> as
> >> adults are directly related to something the puppy raiser did 
> or did not
> >> do,
> >> usually in the negative.
> >>
> >> I've had several dogs whose raisers said they were surprised 
> the dog made
> >> it
> >> to be a guide, only because they remembered the dog's teenage 
> years as it
> >> were and based their opinion not on any specific bad behavior 
> but the
> >> dog's
> >> general attitude. I've also had one dog who never did certain 
> things as a
> >> puppy that he definitely did as an adult, and he developed those
> >> behaviors,
> >> like a kid going off to college, once he got into the kennel 
> setting.>> Luckily, they weren't horrific behaviors, but the 
> raiser was shocked to
> >> hear
> >> he did such things, even in his kennel profiles. Yep, he was 
> quite the
> >> frat
> >> boy, partying with the kennel mates, opening run doors and 
> crate doors 
> >> and
> >> egging on other dogs. I called him the Bart Simpson of guide 
> dogs for a
> >> reason. :)
> >>
> >> Yes, some bad habits, as well as some good ones, can start 
> and magnify in
> >> the puppy home but remember, not everything does. n
> >>
> >> Jenine Stanley
> >> jeninems at wowway.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) (Internet)
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:58 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy 
> raisers/walkers>>
> >> Marsha,
> >> I am sorry this happened to you. Truly I am.
> >> I do want to say that "find a different school" isn't the 
> solution to
> >> everything. It's like saying "If you don't like x about your 
> husband, 
> >> then
> >> find a different husband".
> >> Yes, that may be the answer, but why can't people try to 
> change the 
> >> policy
> >> from within?
> >> An argument for having contact with raisers is that they live 
> with and
> >> observe the dog in the same conditions you do. The trainers 
> do not live
> >> with
> >> the dogs, and I do think that impacts what they observe and 
> how they
> >> observe
> >> it. It's like living with a person and noticing things that 
> you wouldn't
> >> notice if you didn't live with them.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Marsha Drenth
> >> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:36 AM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide 
> Dog Users'
> >> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> >>
> >> Ginger, Thank you for this explaination. As an SE grad, I 
> have no problem
> >> with the way the puppy raising contact is done now. I 
> completely see why
> >> its
> >> done the way it is. And I know that if I wanted to send a 
> letter to 
> >> Emma's
> >> raiser, then I can do so. I would rather stay private. I mean 
> don't get 
> >> me
> >> wrong, how they raised Emma was wonderful, but neither do I 
> need anything
> >> else from them. With my previous pup, from GDB. I had a bad raiser
> >> experience. After only 4 years of working Heather, I was 
> forced to retire
> >> her. And because I did so, the raiser, got very upset at me. 
> She was 
> >> never
> >> meant to be a guide, and I have no clue why GDB put her 
> through the
> >> training. She was a wonderful pup, just not meant to do guide 
> work. The
> >> raiser blamed me for her ability not to work. And believe me 
> if I could
> >> have
> >> done something to make that dog work, then I would.
> >>
> >> So as a SE grad, I know why they did it this way. If you 
> don't like it,
> >> then
> >> maybe those of you who have real issues with the policy 
> should find
> >> another
> >> school.
> >>
> >> Just my two cents for whatever its worth,
> >> Marsha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Ginger Kutsch
> >> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:07 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> There is a question about The Seeing Eye's policy regarding
> >> raiser contact on the consumer satisfaction survey that graduates
> >> are invited to participate in after they have been home with
> >> their dogs for nine months. When I worked on the consumer
> >> satisfaction committee, the majority of respondents,
> >> approximately 80%, were satisfied with the current puppy raiser
> >> contact policy.
> >>
> >> As a graduate of The Seeing Eye, I have no strong feeling one way
> >> or another about puppy raiser contact. I've written a thank you
> >> note to my puppy raisers for each of my three dogs and have never
> >> received a response. Whether I am able to have direct
> >> communication with my puppy raiser or not has no bearing on my
> >> dog's ability to guide me safely and effectively. Therefore, it
> >> is not part of my decision making process when I consider a
> >> school.
> >>
> >> There are, however,  several graduates who attend The 
> Seeing Eye
> >> because there is *no contact. Whether we are all "adults" or not,
> >> people are generally brought up to feel obligated in some way to
> >> those people who offer us assistance, give us gifts, etc. How
> >> many times have you done something simply because you feel
> >> obligated?
> >>
> >> The fact is that, whether we call ourselves "consumers" or not,
> >> when we attend a guide dog school and receive a dog, we are
> >> accepting charity. Those people who raise puppies for a guide dog
> >> school are performing a charitable act. If you consider the
> >> definition of charity for a moment, it may give you more insight
> >> on the philosophy of The Seeing Eye. Charity is defined as 1),
> >> generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless;
> >> And 2), something given to a person or persons in need.
> >>
> >> Early on, The Seeing Eye created policies that supported its
> >> belief that blind people deserved respect and dignity. Now I know
> >> there are some on this list that dislike the word dignity, but
> >> when applied correctly, one realizes that The Seeing Eye's tag
> >> line  is not saying that dogs provide independence and 
> dignity;>> but rather  it's saying that the organization 
> firmly believes
> >> that independence and dignity is a right that everyone deserves.
> >>
> >> That said, many of the policies that The Seeing Eye upholds
> >> support this belief.
> >>
> >> 1. There is a charge for the dog. Seeing Eye does not advertise
> >> that a blind person can come get a dog for free. This smacks of
> >> "charity".  The fee hardly covers the true cost of the 
> dog and
> >> may only be symbolic, but it enables the organization to promote
> >> its belief that blind people are not looking for a hand-out but
> >> rather a hand-up.
> >>
> >> 2. The Seeing Eye does not accept funding, or ask its graduates
> >> to seek funding, for any one individual's  specific training
> >> needs. I think Buddy's post adequately explained the reason for
> >> this policy.
> >>
> >> 3. The Seeing Eye does not facilitate puppy raiser contact. This
> >> policy is in keeping with the organization's belief that blind
> >> people who receive a dog from The Seeing Eye are not charity
> >> cases but rather individuals who are looking to enhance their
> >> lives. This policy switches the focus of puppy raising from
> >> raising a dog for any one blind individual to raising the dog for
> >> an organization that provides dogs for the blind. This makes the
> >> organization obligated to the puppy raisers, rather than placing
> >> that burden on the individual blind person.
> >>
> >> Years ago when graduates expressed a desire to be able to
> >> personally thank their puppy raisers if they so chose, The Seeing
> >> Eye responded and created a system so that graduates might do so
> >> while still preserving anonymity. Since the majority of Seeing
> >> Eye graduates are satisfied with the current policy on puppy
> >> raiser contact, it's highly unlikely that the organization will
> >> seek to change it at this point.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I'm not speaking on behalf of the organization, just
> >> offering my two cents for what its worth!
> >>
> >> Ginger,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail
> >> .com
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature
> >> database 5710 (20101217) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature
> >> database 5710 (20101217) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40ng
> >> c.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3328 - Release 
> Date: 12/21/10
> >> 14:34:00
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
> > et
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for 
> > nagdu:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3328 - Release 
> Date: 12/21/10
> > 14:34:00
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for 
> > nagdu:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
> et 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3328 - Release Date: 
> 12/21/1014:34:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rainshadowmusic%40shaw.ca
> 




More information about the NAGDU mailing list