[nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Tue Feb 9 14:13:10 UTC 2010


I think GDB discontinued its shepherd line because it wasn't producing
many dogs who could work a good long guide dog life.  I had a GDB
shepherd, and, while he was a wonderful dog, he found guide work much too
stressful and had to retire after only a couple years.  I don't think my
experience was all that uncommon, so they dropped the line.

All my labs have looked far ahead to go around obstacles.  It's not an
exclusive shepherd trait.
And, as it happens, Ben is not particularly eager to please.  He's either
a shepherd in lab's clothing, or a very hush-hush experiment crossing a
lab with a cat.
Tracy

> I'm not quite sure why shepherds were discontinued from the GDB
> program, except probably due to their supposed temprements. AS for
> first timers getting them, I think that this has to do with how a
> shepherd's mind works, and the fact that they process a lot more in
> general than other breeds. For instance, a shepherd will already be
> figuring a way around an obsticle or person that's a long ways off,
> like 40 or 50 feet, whereas a Lab might walk almost right on top of
> that obsticle or person before they react. At least this has been my
> observation in talking with other people I work with who have these
> breeds. My own shepherd tends to be like that as well. Also, Labs or
> Goldens are so easy to please and will do anything for you. Verses
> shepherds, that can often either be thick skulled or terribly
> sensative. These are just my own observations with my own GSD, or
> German Shepherd Dog, that I've had as a guide for almost 1.5 years,
> hard to believe. I've also noticed a delay while she processes a
> command, like something simple like sit. Sometimes she pauses, like
> she's considering, "Hmm, should I really sit for him, does he really
> mean for me to sit?" I've heard someone else on this list refer to it
> as the internal decision making committee. Shepherds can be picky
> eaters too, or take their time in eating. A Seeing Eye trainer, when I
> talked with him about this, told me that his wife's guide picks up and
> takes one piece of kibble into the living room, one piece into the
> den, one piece into the bedroom, and so forth. Mine used to take a
> long time to get started, or continue, but I've since switched her to
> an evening meal once a day. I still have to walk off or leave the room
> before she will start many times. Verses a Lab will eat the carpet if
> you put it in a bowl and put dog food on it, and they'll waste no time
> in doing so.
>
> Jmt,
> Wayne
>
> On 2/8/10, Michelle <m-johnson at bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I'd like to know why shepherds aren't used in the GDB program, and why
>> don't
>> first-timers get sheperds? I don't know a whole lot about sheperds...
>>
>> Michelle
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>>
>>> Hi Nichole,
>>> When I was at Seeing Eye in 1999 to get Jacob, there were a litter of
>>> Chocolate Labs in the class.  They were all medium to small in size.
>>> Seeing
>>> Eye tries to breed on the smaller size. I've seen some very huge Labs
>>> from
>>> DGB!   The large ones tend to be mellow while many of the small Labs
>>> are
>>> high energy.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, most of the chocolates that I have met in my life are quite
>>>> large. I do not know if this is just a coincidence or if all
>>>> chocolates
>>>> are this way.  They were almost too large to be guides.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. You have pointed out an important fact. Chocolate
>>>>> color
>>>>> in labs is a recessive trait. GDB does not specifically breed for
>>>>> this
>>>>> color, as it has nothing to do with the dogs suitability for guide
>>>>> work.
>>>>> I'd have to believe if it made a difference, they'd modify their
>>>>> breeding program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best-
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:41 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for the color chocolate labs are the same as the other colors.
>>>>> Here's an article I found that explains it pretty well.
>>>>> http://www.labbies.com/genetics.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> The short version is that black is the dominant gene and most labs
>>>>> will
>>>>> end
>>>>> up this color.  The next most common color is yellow and chocolate
>>>>> comes
>>>>> in
>>>>> third.   Depending on your particular breeding program and the
>>>>> recessive
>>>>>
>>>>> genes in those dogs, chocolate labs may never appear.  It is totally
>>>>> a
>>>>> color
>>>>> thing and has nothing to do with health or temperament.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was told by a GDB graduate that GDB didn't use chocolate Labs
>>>>>> because
>>>>>
>>>>>>they weren't as good as the black or yellow ones. But, maybe they
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>don't have them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it is true about the bloodlines, they would have to have only
>>>>> breeding
>>>>>> stock that has either a family tree of only black or yellow genes.
>>>>> Lots of
>>>>>> times a black Lab with yellow genes can welp chocolates - chocolates
>>>>> must
>>>>>> have both black and yellow genes to make the brown color.  They have
>>>>> to be
>>>>>> occasionally bred to black Labs to keep the chocolate color dark and
>>>>> rich.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't quote me on this one, but I've heard that it is not so much
>>>>> "won't
>>>>>>> use" chocolates as that they just are not in the blood line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:31 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>>>>>>From what I've heard, GDB no longer uses German shepherds and they
>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> don't use chocolate Labs. I can understand the shepherds but don't
>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> why they won't use chocolate Labs.  Seeing Eye uses them without
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more problems than with any other colored Labs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:48 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes... it's ashame.  I was stuck on shepherds for a while, but I
>>>>>>>>> realized that I probably was not going to get one from GDB.  They
>>>>>>>>> usually do not give first timers shepherds.  Also, the number was
>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> low that I would rather leave what there was for the people who
>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> take nothing else. However, I did get to visit with one of the
>>>>>>>>> shepherds who was going out in the next class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GDF will encounter the same problems with German
>>>>> shepherds
>>>>>>>>>> as GDB?  It's a shame how this beautiful breed has been ruined
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> show-dog crowd!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know aboout the "pressure" of being the first one in
>>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> my work with the Humane Society, I am the first disabled person
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> their service dog to join the Pet-Assisted Therapy Program.
>>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>>> had lots of puppy-raisers and their service dog pups, but not
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> like me. they are very happy with my and Landon's performance of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> job that another program wants me to join them!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You'll do fine - and the new shepherd guide!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>>>>>    GDF hasn't trained Shepherds in more than 20 years. Because
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> so much experience with the breed, they are re-introducing them
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> me as their first handler. Oh, the pressure! (smile)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marion,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Guide Dog Foundation used German shepherds
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The name "Sarge" seems to fit a shepherd more than it would a
>>>>> Lab.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend at the Naval Medical Center who has a Lab
>>>>>>>>>>>> named
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog, Landon is named for Michael Landon actor in the old TV
>>>>>>>>>>>> series, "Bonanza" - Little Joe who was always fighting!  The
>>>>> actor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Landon was also in "Little House on the Prairie" and I think
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Stairway to Heaven". He was a more mature and peaceful
>>>>> charactor on
>>>>>>>>>>>> those two shows! I enjoyed the first two shows!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My old dogs were Heidi, Charm (and she was!), Brownie (my Mom
>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> for her brown eyes - she was black!), Olivia, Hanna, Janelle,
>>>>> Jacob,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and now Landon. I liked all the names and didn't feel the need
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> change them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    When I first heard my future guide dog's name, my first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression was, "Oh, no! That will need to change!" However,
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more I have learned about him, the more his name seems to fit
>>>>> him!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He is a big German Shepherd,weighing in at 91 lbs. about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago and not yet 2 years old. He has an all black face
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold eyes! His name is Sarge!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Now, I'm a fairly liberal person and would consider myself
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace activist, so the name seemed a little out-of-place for
>>>>> me. At
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time, my first trainer was also the Founder and
>>>>> Executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of the school from which I recieved my first three
>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs. He is now the Director of Training (I think they call
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Training Officer) for the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind.
>>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> name? Well, Mike Sargeant, often called "Sarge"! When I spoke
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> him the last time, he referred to my dog as "my namesake"!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a great guy and I count him as a close colleague, so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change Sarge's name now! BTW, Mike told me he thought of
>>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarge's name himself just to rattle my cage! To what? Well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he thought of "ACB"! Nice guy, huh? And I call him a friend?
>>>>> (big
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grin)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I adopted Laveau from the humane society, her name was
>>>>> Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That had to go because... it just did.  It didn't take her
>>>>> long to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch and now when I say or sign her name she wags like
>>>>> crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She was only a year old and I don't know how long she had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck with the horrid moniker of Marge.  No offense to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that name but it just wasn't for her.  Also I'm a huge Harry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter fan and everyone would have called her aunt Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary as sarcasm, only to have it abused by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateurs."
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christopher Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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