[nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

Tue Feb 9 19:36:59 UTC 2010

Wayne,

I think it was Rox who coined the Internal Executive Committee for one of
her dogs, but my poodle most definitely has one.  Sometimes the committee
meetings go very long before it comes to a decision.  /grin/

I've heard some rumor and scuttlebutt that previous GSD handlers are given
preference because the GSD temperament is so different.  I've heard the same
about poodles.  You have to have a medical need for a hypoallergenic poodle,
but rumor has it you also have to demonstrate that you can handle one
because of the poodle temperament and style.  But I've never found out if
that's true or not.

I'll let you know if I ever pass the test. /grin/

One reason poodles are compared to GSDs among the standard guiding breeds is
the thinking and planning ahead, as well as a strong tendency to make
independent decisions and then stick with them.  Which I really love, now
that Mitzi is so great about using those traits so well in her work.  I can
walk along with my head in the clouds while she handles the navigation.  The
only problem is that I still sometimes forget to notice landmarks or count
blocks and suddenly realize I have no idea where we are.  She's such a zippy
little thing that We've happily overshot our turning point or destination by
quite surprising distance.  /smile/  There have also been times when I've
mentioned we were going to one place or another, especially on journeys of
exploration around downtown, only to find myself struggling to remember or
figure out which way to turn then having to argue with my dog abour it.  The
most notable time was when I decided to walk for a mile or so in the
direction home until I decided we had had our fun and were getting tired and
I was ready to hop a train.  "Hm..." I said absent-mindedly to myself.  "I'm
ready to find the train."  Then I gave her the command to turn towards the
tracks several blocks away so that we could then find the nearest stop and
just go from there.

We got to an interstection I didn't know that didn't fit the normal
patterns, and it took me some time to figure out which way to go to get back
on track.  "Let's see..."  I said to myself, "If I want to find a train
stop.." etc. to reason it all out.  Mitzi pulled right.  I thought we should
go left, but still wasn't sure.  I ran through my reasoning process again,
confusing myself even more this time.  Mitzi pulled right and I distractedly
asked her to halt.  Left was the way to go I decided.  Then had to debate
the point with the dog and finally put my foot down.

"Fine!" her attitude seemed to say.  "If that's how you're going to be about
it."

Guess who turned out to be correct in that one?  /grin/

She's kinda the same way about food and water you describe with Gucci.  I've
noticed that if she hasn't gotten around to breakfast when she notices I'm
getting ready for a morning trip, she'll run eat and get a big drink.  Funny
girl.

The difference between Mitzi and her poodle pals and the GSDs I know is that
the GSDs are always so clearly working.  The job may be pausing to decide
which tree at the park to investigate next, but they are definitely working.
/smile/  They always bear such a sense of contained energy and intelligence
about them!

Whereas poodles are very, very busy, ever radiating a spirit of joyful
playfulness.  Even when Mitzi is in her most focused, goal-oriented guiding
mode, she still busy checking it all out.  When we're waiting for a light or
stopping for a chat, she does not stand in position at my side or sit beside
me in a dignified manner.  She's not all over the place anymore, but she
simply does not have that quality of stillness.

Hm...  I wonder if that's why I always find the "guide dogs give blind
people dignity" concept so odd.  A nice, dignified dog would probably give
me a whole lot of dignity by association.

My dog gives me something, but I'm pretty sure it's not dignity.  /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Wayne Merritt
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:52 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names

I'm not quite sure why shepherds were discontinued from the GDB
program, except probably due to their supposed temprements. AS for
first timers getting them, I think that this has to do with how a
shepherd's mind works, and the fact that they process a lot more in
general than other breeds. For instance, a shepherd will already be
figuring a way around an obsticle or person that's a long ways off,
like 40 or 50 feet, whereas a Lab might walk almost right on top of
that obsticle or person before they react. At least this has been my
observation in talking with other people I work with who have these
breeds. My own shepherd tends to be like that as well. Also, Labs or
Goldens are so easy to please and will do anything for you. Verses
shepherds, that can often either be thick skulled or terribly
sensative. These are just my own observations with my own GSD, or
German Shepherd Dog, that I've had as a guide for almost 1.5 years,
hard to believe. I've also noticed a delay while she processes a
command, like something simple like sit. Sometimes she pauses, like
she's considering, "Hmm, should I really sit for him, does he really
mean for me to sit?" I've heard someone else on this list refer to it
as the internal decision making committee. Shepherds can be picky
eaters too, or take their time in eating. A Seeing Eye trainer, when I
talked with him about this, told me that his wife's guide picks up and
takes one piece of kibble into the living room, one piece into the
den, one piece into the bedroom, and so forth. Mine used to take a
long time to get started, or continue, but I've since switched her to
an evening meal once a day. I still have to walk off or leave the room
before she will start many times. Verses a Lab will eat the carpet if
you put it in a bowl and put dog food on it, and they'll waste no time
in doing so.

Jmt,
Wayne

On 2/8/10, Michelle <m-johnson at bigpond.com> wrote:
> I'd like to know why shepherds aren't used in the GDB program, and why
don't
> first-timers get sheperds? I don't know a whole lot about sheperds...
>
> Michelle
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>
>
>> Hi Nichole,
>> When I was at Seeing Eye in 1999 to get Jacob, there were a litter of
>> Chocolate Labs in the class.  They were all medium to small in size.
>> Seeing
>> Eye tries to breed on the smaller size. I've seen some very huge Labs
from
>> DGB!   The large ones tend to be mellow while many of the small Labs are
>> high energy.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>
>>
>>> However, most of the chocolates that I have met in my life are quite
>>> large. I do not know if this is just a coincidence or if all chocolates
>>> are this way.  They were almost too large to be guides.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. You have pointed out an important fact. Chocolate
color
>>>> in labs is a recessive trait. GDB does not specifically breed for this
>>>> color, as it has nothing to do with the dogs suitability for guide
work.
>>>> I'd have to believe if it made a difference, they'd modify their
>>>> breeding program.
>>>>
>>>> Best-
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:41 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] chocolate labs was Re: Dog names
>>>>
>>>> Except for the color chocolate labs are the same as the other colors.
>>>> Here's an article I found that explains it pretty well.
>>>> http://www.labbies.com/genetics.htm
>>>>
>>>> The short version is that black is the dominant gene and most labs will
>>>> end
>>>> up this color.  The next most common color is yellow and chocolate
comes
>>>> in
>>>> third.   Depending on your particular breeding program and the
recessive
>>>>
>>>> genes in those dogs, chocolate labs may never appear.  It is totally a
>>>> color
>>>> thing and has nothing to do with health or temperament.
>>>>
>>>> HTH
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was told by a GDB graduate that GDB didn't use chocolate Labs because
>>>>
>>>>>they weren't as good as the black or yellow ones. But, maybe they just
>>>>>don't have them.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is true about the bloodlines, they would have to have only
>>>> breeding
>>>>> stock that has either a family tree of only black or yellow genes.
>>>> Lots of
>>>>> times a black Lab with yellow genes can welp chocolates - chocolates
>>>> must
>>>>> have both black and yellow genes to make the brown color.  They have
>>>> to be
>>>>> occasionally bred to black Labs to keep the chocolate color dark and
>>>> rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't quote me on this one, but I've heard that it is not so much
>>>> "won't
>>>>>> use" chocolates as that they just are not in the blood line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole,
>>>>>>>>From what I've heard, GDB no longer uses German shepherds and they
>>>> also
>>>>>>> don't use chocolate Labs. I can understand the shepherds but don't
>>>> know
>>>>>>> why they won't use chocolate Labs.  Seeing Eye uses them without any
>>>>
>>>>>>> more problems than with any other colored Labs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:48 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes... it's ashame.  I was stuck on shepherds for a while, but I
>>>>>>>> realized that I probably was not going to get one from GDB.  They
>>>>>>>> usually do not give first timers shepherds.  Also, the number was
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> low that I would rather leave what there was for the people who
>>>> would
>>>>>>>> take nothing else. However, I did get to visit with one of the
>>>>>>>> shepherds who was going out in the next class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GDF will encounter the same problems with German
>>>> shepherds
>>>>>>>>> as GDB?  It's a shame how this beautiful breed has been ruined by
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> show-dog crowd!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know aboout the "pressure" of being the first one in something.
>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> my work with the Humane Society, I am the first disabled person
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> their service dog to join the Pet-Assisted Therapy Program.
>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>> had lots of puppy-raisers and their service dog pups, but not
>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> like me. they are very happy with my and Landon's performance of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> job that another program wants me to join them!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You'll do fine - and the new shepherd guide!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>>>>>>    GDF hasn't trained Shepherds in more than 20 years. Because I
>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> so much experience with the breed, they are re-introducing them
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> me as their first handler. Oh, the pressure! (smile)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog names
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Marion,
>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Guide Dog Foundation used German shepherds
>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>> The name "Sarge" seems to fit a shepherd more than it would a
>>>> Lab.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend at the Naval Medical Center who has a Lab named
>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My dog, Landon is named for Michael Landon actor in the old TV
>>>>>>>>>>> series, "Bonanza" - Little Joe who was always fighting!  The
>>>> actor
>>>>>>>>>>> Landon was also in "Little House on the Prairie" and I think
>>>>>>>>>>> "Stairway to Heaven". He was a more mature and peaceful
>>>> charactor on
>>>>>>>>>>> those two shows! I enjoyed the first two shows!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My old dogs were Heidi, Charm (and she was!), Brownie (my Mom
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>> for her brown eyes - she was black!), Olivia, Hanna, Janelle,
>>>> Jacob,
>>>>>>>>>>> and now Landon. I liked all the names and didn't feel the need
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> change them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>>>>>>    When I first heard my future guide dog's name, my first
>>>>>>>>>>>> impression was, "Oh, no! That will need to change!" However,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> more I have learned about him, the more his name seems to fit
>>>> him!
>>>>>>>>>>>> He is a big German Shepherd,weighing in at 91 lbs. about three
>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago and not yet 2 years old. He has an all black face and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> gold eyes! His name is Sarge!
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Now, I'm a fairly liberal person and would consider myself a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> peace activist, so the name seemed a little out-of-place for
>>>> me. At
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time, my first trainer was also the Founder and
>>>> Executive
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of the school from which I recieved my first three
>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs. He is now the Director of Training (I think they call it
>>>>>>>>>>>> Training Officer) for the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind.
>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>>> name? Well, Mike Sargeant, often called "Sarge"! When I spoke
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> him the last time, he referred to my dog as "my namesake"! Mike
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a great guy and I count him as a close colleague, so I couldn't
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> change Sarge's name now! BTW, Mike told me he thought of
>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarge's name himself just to rattle my cage! To what? Well, he
>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>> he thought of "ACB"! Nice guy, huh? And I call him a friend?
>>>> (big
>>>>>>>>>>>> grin)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Interesting Names Re: guide dog book about
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> young person
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I adopted Laveau from the humane society, her name was
>>>> Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That had to go because... it just did.  It didn't take her
>>>> long to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch and now when I say or sign her name she wags like
>>>> crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> She was only a year old and I don't know how long she had been
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck with the horrid moniker of Marge.  No offense to anyone
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that name but it just wasn't for her.  Also I'm a huge Harry
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter fan and everyone would have called her aunt Marge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary as sarcasm, only to have it abused by amateurs."
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christopher Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>> rizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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-- 
My blog:
http://wayneism.blogspot.com
My websites:
www.wayneism.com
www.whitecaneday.org

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