[nagdu] re sighted guides

Wed Feb 17 22:27:39 UTC 2010

Hi Gary,
At my school, I was told that when there is a situation in which 
sighted guide would be more practical than working the dog, all 
you have to do is drop the harness handle, and then hold the 
dog's leash in your left hand, and have the sighted guide stand 
on your right.  The dog should just heal on your left while the 
sighted guide is walking with you.
There are definitely times when sighted guide is easier with 
Gilbert, especially in places with huge crowds like state fairs 
and I don't like to leave him at home either.  So doing sighted 
guide while the guide dog is with you should not be a problem.
I hope this helps, and good luck training for your guide dog!
Allison and Gilbert

>----- Original Message -----
>From: GARY STEEVES <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca
>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:36:39 -0800
>Subject: [nagdu] re sighted guides

>Hello Everyone:

>A question that has popped into my mind of late is how one deals 
with a sighted guide.  I do a lot of things on my own which will 
be wonderful with a dog.  On the other hand, on the weekends 
especially, me and my girlfriend go out and about doing the 
things we need or like to do.

>I'm sure this will be covered at my school but I was curious how 
others deal with this.  When I'm out with my girlfriend I am 
often holding hands (romantic as I am :), sometimes an elbow if 
we're doing more technical navigations like busy stores.  So with 
a guide dog how does one still be able to be with their partner 
and have their dog out with them as well? Hopefully my question 
is making sense.  If not, ask me more and I will clarify or think 
of better examples.

>Thanks
>Gary

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net
>Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:52 pm
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org

>> Tracy,

>> Nope.  My sighted help is not trained!  /grin/  I
>> am as bad, if not worse,
>> than the dog at preventing myself from getting sloppy when said
>> sighted help
>> is around.  We're still trying to both build up our good
>> habits, not slack
>> into bad ones! /smile/

>> I once decided to trust Mitzi's judgment on a pleasant country
>> route beside
>> a fairly dangerous roadway.  So I got to go with her to go
>> bark at a goat.
>> /smile/  I was so proud of myself for letting her guide me
>> safely and surely
>> across the grass to the safer path beyond, then I just wanted to
>> jump up and
>> down and scream.  Also, I had a heck of an argument on my
>> hands convincing
>> her that this was not what she was supposed to be doing right
>> now.  I was
>> embarrassed to be doing all of this in front of what I guess to
>> be a goat.
>> The goat did not appear to care.  /grin/

>> She still pauses for a half beat to look towards that goat's
>> pasture, and I
>> automatically say, "Don't even think about it."  Which she
>> clearly does
>> before deciding to go ahead and do her boring old job.  /smile/

>> Tami Smith-Kinney

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative

>> It's been a while since I've had a new dog, knock wood, but I
>> think that
>> what I do to encourage initiative is to encourage the dog to 
make
>> decisions when we get into a situation, and show him that I'm
>> willing to
>> go with his decisions once he makes one.  At first, this
>> can involve
>> standing somewhere and saying Hup-up in a cheerful way, and
>> sometimes some
>> gentle handwaving to suggest possibilities.  I've even
>> found myself giving
>> that wonderfully mystic GDF command "Find the Way!"
>> In my experience, this kind of thing requires me to work my dog
>> on my own
>> quite a bit.  Standing still and waiting for the dog to
>> figure out a
>> challenge seems to drive sighted people buggy.  Even if I
>> explain before
>> we set out that I am trying to teach the dog that he can figure
>> things out
>> without much help, when the situation comes up, the sighted
>> person barges
>> ahead saying "Oh come on; this way."  So, instead of the
>> dog learning that
>> he can make decisions, he learns that if he waits, someone will
>> go ahead
>> and he can follow them.  Not the conclusion I want.
>> Someone told me that
>> her dog would look around for a sighted person to follow, if the
>> dog felt
>> her person was confused.  That's initiative too, but not
>> the kind I want.
>> So, for me, it's really important to work with my dog alone in 
the
>> beginning.  Maybe other people have better control of their
>> sightedpartners than I do, but for me they can be quite a
>> hindrance to
>> team-building.

>> In the beginning, and not much after either, I wouldn't expect
>> the dog to
>> figure things out if I was facing the whole wrong way or
>> something.  An
>> experienced dog can sometimes figure that out, but really it's
>> my job to
>> at least aim in the generally right direction.
>> Although once, at a state convention banquet, I had to step out,
>> and I
>> pointed the way I thought we should go and told Echo
>> "Outside!"  She led
>> me the other way than I pointed, around the table and to a clear
>> aisle,and then took me to the door.  I was very
>> impressed.  Just like in the
>> Seeing Eye dog books!

>> I may have messed up Ben's initiative a bit by not trusting his
>> decisions.  It's hard for me to tell when he's going around
>> something and when he's
>> going to sniff something, especially in suburbia, where the work
>> is less
>> challenging and he gets more distracted.  Luckily, Ben has lots 
of
>> confidence and initiative, so I haven't made a complete hash of
>> things.Tracy

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