[nagdu] re sighted guides

Thu Feb 18 03:09:49 UTC 2010

Hi. most everyone has pretty said the same thing, but let me put a
different perspective on it. Often with my guide, she will pull out in
front of me even when she's not guiding, such as when I'm holding the
leash alone. There are times when i go sighted guide, or as the new
in-term is "human guide," that in order to keep my dog engaged so she
doesn't start lagging behind from looking around, I will work her as
well as hold onto my friend's elbow. This keeps the dog engaged with
guiding as well as let's me use the human guide in tight spots. I do
this a lot in church when going through the foyer and when it's
crowded. This gives you the best of both worlds as they say. I've
heard of other dog guide users that do this as well. If I'm in a more
open spot, such as in an aisle of a convenience or grocery store, then
I will heel the dog when taking my friend's arm, so I don't do both
all of the time, just in those tight spots. Or, maybe I will use both
methods if I think that my dog is lagging too much. Besides, I've
heard that if you work the dog while using someone's arm, the dog is
more likely to pay attention to where you're going than if you just
were to heel them, which might come in handy if you wanted to repeat
the route later without the friend being there.

Jmt,
Wayne

On 2/17/10, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org> wrote:
> If you guide is as smart as mine, he or she will get very quickly how good
> and dependable your two eyed loved one is. They will abdicate to her if not
> gently insist she take the lead. In those instances I just drop the handle
> on my harness and lead the dog by leash. It allows for those romantic
> moments and when you need to rely on the guide he is there and ready to go.
> I find that this also gives definitive action to his being able to go back
> to work mode when you drop your girlfriends hand and take up the harness
> once again.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of GARY STEEVES
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:37 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] re sighted guides
>
> Hello Everyone:
>
> A question that has popped into my mind of late is how one deals with a
> sighted guide. I do a lot of things on my own which will be wonderful with a
> dog. On the other hand, on the weekends especially, me and my girlfriend go
> out and about doing the things we need or like to do.
>
> I'm sure this will be covered at my school but I was curious how others deal
> with this. When I'm out with my girlfriend I am often holding hands
> (romantic as I am :), sometimes an elbow if we're doing more technical
> navigations like busy stores. So with a guide dog how does one still be able
> to be with their partner and have their dog out with them as well? Hopefully
> my question is making sense. If not, ask me more and I will clarify or think
> of better examples.
>
> Thanks
> Gary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:52 pm
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> Tracy,
>>
>> Nope.  My sighted help is not trained!  /grin/  I
>> am as bad, if not worse,
>> than the dog at preventing myself from getting sloppy when said
>> sighted help
>> is around.  We're still trying to both build up our good
>> habits, not slack
>> into bad ones! /smile/
>>
>> I once decided to trust Mitzi's judgment on a pleasant country
>> route beside
>> a fairly dangerous roadway.  So I got to go with her to go
>> bark at a goat.
>> /smile/  I was so proud of myself for letting her guide me
>> safely and surely
>> across the grass to the safer path beyond, then I just wanted to
>> jump up and
>> down and scream.  Also, I had a heck of an argument on my
>> hands convincing
>> her that this was not what she was supposed to be doing right
>> now.  I was
>> embarrassed to be doing all of this in front of what I guess to
>> be a goat.
>> The goat did not appear to care.  /grin/
>>
>> She still pauses for a half beat to look towards that goat's
>> pasture, and I
>> automatically say, "Don't even think about it."  Which she
>> clearly does
>> before deciding to go ahead and do her boring old job.  /smile/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative
>>
>> It's been a while since I've had a new dog, knock wood, but I
>> think that
>> what I do to encourage initiative is to encourage the dog to make
>> decisions when we get into a situation, and show him that I'm
>> willing to
>> go with his decisions once he makes one.  At first, this
>> can involve
>> standing somewhere and saying Hup-up in a cheerful way, and
>> sometimes some
>> gentle handwaving to suggest possibilities.  I've even
>> found myself giving
>> that wonderfully mystic GDF command "Find the Way!"
>> In my experience, this kind of thing requires me to work my dog
>> on my own
>> quite a bit.  Standing still and waiting for the dog to
>> figure out a
>> challenge seems to drive sighted people buggy.  Even if I
>> explain before
>> we set out that I am trying to teach the dog that he can figure
>> things out
>> without much help, when the situation comes up, the sighted
>> person barges
>> ahead saying "Oh come on; this way."  So, instead of the
>> dog learning that
>> he can make decisions, he learns that if he waits, someone will
>> go ahead
>> and he can follow them.  Not the conclusion I want.
>> Someone told me that
>> her dog would look around for a sighted person to follow, if the
>> dog felt
>> her person was confused.  That's initiative too, but not
>> the kind I want.
>> So, for me, it's really important to work with my dog alone in the
>> beginning.  Maybe other people have better control of their
>> sightedpartners than I do, but for me they can be quite a
>> hindrance to
>> team-building.
>>
>> In the beginning, and not much after either, I wouldn't expect
>> the dog to
>> figure things out if I was facing the whole wrong way or
>> something. An
>> experienced dog can sometimes figure that out, but really it's
>> my job to
>> at least aim in the generally right direction.
>> Although once, at a state convention banquet, I had to step out,
>> and I
>> pointed the way I thought we should go and told Echo
>> "Outside!"  She led
>> me the other way than I pointed, around the table and to a clear
>> aisle,and then took me to the door.  I was very
>> impressed.  Just like in the
>> Seeing Eye dog books!
>>
>> I may have messed up Ben's initiative a bit by not trusting his
>> decisions. It's hard for me to tell when he's going around
>> something and when he's
>> going to sniff something, especially in suburbia, where the work
>> is less
>> challenging and he gets more distracted. Luckily, Ben has lots of
>> confidence and initiative, so I haven't made a complete hash of
>> things.Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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