[nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative

Ioana Gandrabur igandrabur at gmx.de
Fri Feb 19 05:28:20 UTC 2010


Hi sounds wonderful. I'm looking forward to a new adventure with a new dog.

thanks to all for your suggestions.

Ioana

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Joy Relton
Sent: February 17, 2010 10:33 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative


Iona,

I've never used the whole pointing in the wrong direction because I want the
dog to find that particular thing. So, I will say "show me the... And then
tapped it until the dog puts his/her nose on it and then I will praise the
dog. I do this with elevator buttons, door knobs and all sorts of things.
The dogs have always associated "show me" with the fact that I want them to
find something. Sometimes I get to see bus stops, trash cans and finally a
mail box if it's an unfamiliar street but the dog understands that I want
them to show me this thing. Then, when I'm in another location and I want to
find whatever that was, the dog associates showing me whatever with my
praise. Dogs aren't stupid. I've found that they will show me counters in
stores or offices, doors, trash cans, seats and more in many locations
because the dog knows that these are the things I often want to find. JMO

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ioana Gandrabur
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative


Great thoughts everyone!

Those situations with Adrian were hardly worth mentioning. I think his
guiding was great unless he was freaking out at people or dogs. I am
thinking I'll try locating very clear targets like the trash can with the
new dog and after he knows it well stand close to it but pointing slightly
the wrong way. Just to suggest that sometimes I might be a bit off. I don't
think it happens too much but say if he was used to show me a location and
we approached it from the opposite corner of the street and  I was less sure
exactly where on the block it was he had a hard time and would never stop or
try to tell me something like: "silly we passed it already" :) Like I said
no tragedy. I Just miss guide dog work so I do the next best thing ramble on
on the list about this or that.

Thanks to all,

Ioana and Adrian the pet

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: February 17, 2010 8:36 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] talents


Joy's message about her third dog's special talent for retracing his steps
reminded me of something I've learned from my dogs: that everyone has their
own special talents.  I think Ben's is turning himself into a stuffed animal
when he lies down.  Echo's was finding places she'd been before.  Amba's was
staying calm while others, like me, were getting anxious.  Lucky's was just
being great at everything. Not meaning to be soppy, but it's one of the
great lessons my dogs have taught me.  I try to look at people too, and see
their special talents, even if they don't otherwise seem special.  I'm not
always successful, but it's a thing I try to keep in mind. Tracy

> Iona,
>
> It sounds like Adrian could be one of those dogs who does lots more
> than you realize because he's a more subtle worker. I have often found
> out things later than my dogs have done which were good but, because
> their work was so
> smooth I didn't realize it. Then, if I wasn't paying attention they might
> get distracted. It was almost as if they were saying "fine, if she's not
> going to appreciate what I'm trying to do, I guess it's not that
> important."
> I know that your tension will be picked up by your dog and that it will
> have
> an impact on his/her work just as it has an impact on how you receive any
> messages sent to you through that harness handle. On the other hand, your
> dog's skills might be heavier in another area. If your dog guides you
> effectively, professionally and safely he's earned his pay. My third dog
> had
> an natural ability to retrace our steps after we had gone twisting and
> turning down isles in a store on through the halls of a shopping mall. It
> was not something that he was taught to do. I really praised him for it
> and
> loved being able to get back out of an area with his skills, but my last
> dog
> had other skills and natural abilities which did not include this skill. I
> found myself getting frustrated a couple of times when I couldn't ask her
> to
> take me out and have her do it, but I learned to talk to myself and remind
> myself that it goes both ways. I'm probably not skilled in all of the ways
> that my dog's puppy raiser or trainer are skilled but we worked
> successfully
> nonetheless. I would recommend that you keep working as a time and keep it
> positive for both of you. It's easy to compare your dog with others, but
> it's not fair. Just think what your dog might being saying about you.



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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: February 17, 2010 11:01 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative


Well said.  /smile/  Separating one's emotions from the problem-solving side
of things, is easier said than done, whether you end up deciding it's a
quirk you can live, an issue you can fix, or a genuine deal breaker.  In the
end only you can make the best decision for yourself and your dog.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC Inc)
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:15 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative

It might be too that you need the skill of a dog being able to do what
Adrian could not. If you do, make that clear to the school. It's like
working in heavy crowds, if that's what you need a dog to do, you need to
specify it. There is a fine line between adjusting to a dog and a dog that
is not what you need. That being said, Joy did give you some excellent
insights. Only you know if Adrian's inability to do what you needed is a
deal breaker.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ioana Gandrabur
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:11 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative

HI there,

Thanks this is quite thoughtful. I'll apply this to the new dog. Adrian, my
first guide, is now retired and I am waiting for the new one. I think I was
pretty positive about the things he did great. I was just sometimes
frustrated because, when I thought I'd like him to show me anything of
interest to help me orient myself e.g. a door or even go back to the curb he
would sniff around once we got off track. I'll be as patient and positive as
I can with the new pup.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Ioana

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Joy Relton
Sent: February 16, 2010 2:11 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative


Iona,

It sounds like Adrian could be one of those dogs who does lots more than you
realize because he's a more subtle worker. I have often found out things
later than my dogs have done which were good but, because their work was so
smooth I didn't realize it. Then, if I wasn't paying attention they might
get distracted. It was almost as if they were saying "fine, if she's not
going to appreciate what I'm trying to do, I guess it's not that important."
I know that your tension will be picked up by your dog and that it will have
an impact on his/her work just as it has an impact on how you receive any
messages sent to you through that harness handle. On the other hand, your
dog's skills might be heavier in another area. If your dog guides you
effectively, professionally and safely he's earned his pay. My third dog had
an natural ability to retrace our steps after we had gone twisting and
turning down isles in a store on through the halls of a shopping mall. It
was not something that he was taught to do. I really praised him for it and
loved being able to get back out of an area with his skills, but my last dog
had other skills and natural abilities which did not include this skill. I
found myself getting frustrated a couple of times when I couldn't ask her to
take me out and have her do it, but I learned to talk to myself and remind
myself that it goes both ways. I'm probably not skilled in all of the ways
that my dog's puppy raiser or trainer are skilled but we worked successfully
nonetheless. I would recommend that you keep working as a time and keep it
positive for both of you. It's easy to compare your dog with others, but
it's not fair. Just think what your dog might being saying about you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ioana Gandrabur
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:54 PM
To: NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List
Subject: [nagdu] How to encourage dog initiative


Hi all,

I find this topic fascinating. When reading about great initiative of dogs I
think that Adrian was not really doing this too much and I wonder if I
somehow discouraged it.

He did great to guide around people and obstacles that people would tell me
about and I had not even known were there. He was very safe and good about
finding his way in crowds etc. However I found that when I was not sure
exactly where I was going he would not be too reliable especially when we
were outside. I would ask him for example  to find a land mark that he knew
from before but  we were not facing the right direction he would either stop
or walk but just sniffing around often disorienting me further. I admit I
was then a bit frustrated. It kind of felt like he thought "ok I'll mess
around until she figures out where she wants me to guide her" but this might
be the projection of my frustration. then naturally I would tell him to stop
that so he would then again just wait for instructions. I would always make
a big party and give treats when we finally found it but I'm not sure what
else I could have done. Any ideas how I can as you put it encourage
constructive initiative?

Ioana


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