[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Fri Jan 1 05:44:13 UTC 2010

those of us who go to The Seeing eye do pay a fee for our dogs--it's a small 
fee.  I believe we're the only school which requires payment of any kind but 
could be wrong.

margo and Arrow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has been
> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new to
> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide guides 
> free
> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is to be,
> must be determined independently and not by any individual school, but by 
> a
> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill set
> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better ensure 
> well
> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has 
> impacted
> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as a
> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and promising 
> for
> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do not
> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and others 
> is
> a cost of those looking for the certification and education sufficient
> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I see 
> how
> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but as
> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the ADA
> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Albert,
>
> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out of 
> me.
>
> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have brought up
> are my issues as well.
>
> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification, but
> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have not 
> seen
>
> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased and
> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone can
> convince me that their program for implementing certification will not 
> cost
> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no
> certification" gal.
>
> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes from 
> the
>
> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to "help" 
> the
> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I am 
> not
>
> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am old
> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies offering
> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do not
> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would rather
> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new ones 
> that
> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for blind
> people.
>
> JMO, a'course
> Julie
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.  Well
>> why
>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by individual
>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not a
>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but that
>> the
>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and
>> trained
>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a state
>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is that
>> not
>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide 
>> prior
>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? I 
>> am
>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently
>> trained
>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
>> afforded?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>>
>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training
>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide
>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>
>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>
>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think
>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
>> involved in certifying my dog.
>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>
>>
>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>> -- Coretta Scott King
>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>
>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>
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