[nagdu] Books about guide dog schools

cheryl echevarria cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Fri Jan 1 18:26:23 UTC 2010


We should read of where we have been and know our history as members of the NFB, to know where we should be going in the future.  NAGDU wouldn't be here without the NFB.

Cheryl Echevarria 
Independent Contractor
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
You can also find me on:
Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Gwizdak<mailto:linda.gwizdak at cox.net> 
  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:44 PM
  Subject: [nagdu] Books about guide dog schools


  Hi Albert,
  I read parts of the NFB history, "Standing Alone, Walking Together" - 
  haven't gotten around to reading the whole book.  I just don't have time to 
  listen to talking books and I can't read them on the bus because of my less 
  than idea hearing! (grin!) I can still read print with magnification and I 
  wonder if the book is in inkprint - anyone know?

  A book I think you'll like is "Love In The Lead: The Fifty Year Miracle Of 
  The Seeing Eye" by Peter Putnam.  Putnam was a graduate of the Seeing Eye 
  and has authored several other books as well.  He died in the late 1990s. 
  This book is available in NLS format - don't remember the catolog number. 
  Anyway, this book outlines the history of the Seeing Eye and why they do 
  what they do.  They really had good NFB-type philosophy and was lightyears 
  ahead of anything for the blind in 1929 when they started - including their 
  fee for service.  As a graduate of this fine school, I gladly pay the fee! 
  It is paying for a service just like you pay for any other service.  Having 
  everything handed to us for free is paternalistic although I think fees 
  should be on an ability to pay.  Seeing Eye charges it first time students 
  $150.00 and $50.00 for all dogs gotten after that.  This fee covers your 
  airfare from anywhere in the US and Canada, you two and a half or three and 
  a half week stay in a very nice dorm.  You are fed three delicious 
  restaurant quality meals a day.  There's a tech room for free computer with 
  Internet use (and I think wireless in the rooms for one's laptop).  The 
  staff is VERY respectful towards blind folks, as well.

  Other schools with books aboout their histories are Leader Dogs and Guide 
  Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael, CA.

  Hey Albert, nice to hear that you are LGBT!  You're not alone in that 
  regard!! (grin!!)  I wish there was a list for blind LGBT people!

  Hope all have had nice holidays with their pups.  Today, Landon and I are 
  just hanging around the house - maybe we'll go for a walk later on after we 
  do laundry!

  Cheers,

  Lyn and Landon
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
  <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 2:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


  > Thank you for the kind words and for the suggested readings. Also, thank 
  > you
  > for the harsh reality that some of my blind peers in fact are required to
  > pay for their guides. I never knew that was the case as the foundation I 
  > got
  > my guide from required nothing of me just that I had strong cane skills. 
  > I
  > had no idea.  I also have been reading marching alone and walking together
  > and draw so much inspiration and determination from that book, that I am
  > looking forward to reading your other suggestions.  I do realize how far 
  > the
  > civil rights movement has come for the afircan Americans, women, gays, and
  > oh so many others which make up the mosaic  that is our country. I also
  > appreciate the advancements  realized for the blind and the disabled
  > community yet still am lost about understanding the whys of how much more
  > needs to be done to ensure equality and access.  I have accepted my 
  > calling
  > to be a force to be reckoned  with to further the efforts of my 
  > predescesors
  > and be a catalyst  to further that effort. I have much to learn, and have
  > lost much, but not as much as I have gained in seeing life from the new
  > perspective that blindness has brought to my life. Perhaps off line we 
  > could
  > talk about my efforts which are well underway to making my county and then
  > my state the model for technology access one school at a time, one town 
  > hall
  > at a time and one county at a time, and then state by state.  I am here 
  > for
  > the long haul and refuse to accept being marginalized or disenfranchised 
  > by
  > anyone or anything just because  I am blind. I did not accept it as a gay
  > man and I plan to work my blindness as positively  and empoweringly  as I
  > did in getting others to see me as a man who happened to be gay rather 
  > then
  > a gay man.  I thank you and do know I value your experience  and knowledge
  > in this new way I navigate  life. Peace.
  >
  > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  > CEO/Founder
  > My Blind Spot, Inc.
  > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  > New York, New York  10004
  > www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  > PH: 917-553-0347
  > Fax: 212-858-5759
  > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
  > doing it."
  >
  >
  > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  > Of Julie J
  > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:37 PM
  > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >
  > Albert,
  >
  > Some guide dogs do cost substantial amounts of money.  The Seeing Eye
  > charges $150 for your first guide from there.  Noah's Assistance Dogs
  > charges $1,500 for a guide or service dog.  Some blind people choose to 
  > use
  > a private trainer which could cost several thousand dollars.  I do know of 
  > a
  >
  > couple other very small programs that charge substantial amounts for their
  > guide dogs.  Owner trainers financial investments vary considerably.  If 
  > you
  >
  > purchase a dog from a reputable breeder it could cost thousands.  Add in 
  > the
  >
  > cost of health screening tests, equipment, training expenses and other
  > incidentals and you could be looking at thousands of dollars on top of the
  > cost of the dog.
  >
  > You also mentioned that the Florida laws are a good starting place, but 
  > that
  >
  > individuals are still being denied access.  I'd like to point out that 
  > civil
  >
  > rights laws for racial minority groups and women are much older than the 
  > ADA
  >
  > and those groups still experience discrimination.  It has only been about 
  > 20
  >
  > years for the ADA and I think we have made substantial progress in that
  > time.  Social change isn't going to happen overnight.
  >
  > You admit being new to blindness and not understanding everything.  I
  > commend you for  being so diligent about learning.  I really think reading
  > everything you possibly can from
  > http://www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/>
  > especially the older more historical documents will help you understand 
  > what
  >
  > blind people have struggled with and overcome in the past.  I think it 
  > might
  >
  > help you understand why many of the folks on this list have the beliefs 
  > that
  >
  > we do.   We understand what has been tried, what worked and what didn't.
  > I've been legally blind for around 17 years now.  Many of the people on 
  > this
  >
  > list have been blind much longer than that and some their entire life.  We
  > are all still learning.
  >
  > If you can I'd also highly recommend reading "The Nature of Independence"
  > it's available at the NFB site I linked above.  This article helped me
  > immensely when I was transitioning from newly acquired blindness skills to
  > living in the real world.
  >
  > HTH
  > Julie
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:45 PM
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >
  >
  >>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has 
  >>been
  >> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new to
  >> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide guides
  >> free
  >> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is to 
  >> be,
  >> must be determined independently and not by any individual school, but by
  >> a
  >> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill set
  >> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better ensure
  >> well
  >> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has
  >> impacted
  >> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
  >> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as a
  >> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and promising
  >> for
  >> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do not
  >> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and others
  >> is
  >> a cost of those looking for the certification and education sufficient
  >> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I see
  >> how
  >> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but as
  >> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
  >> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the ADA
  >> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
  >>
  >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >> CEO/Founder
  >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >> New York, New York  10004
  >> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
  >> is
  >> doing it."
  >>
  >>
  >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
  >> Behalf
  >> Of Julie J
  >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
  >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >> Albert,
  >>
  >> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out of
  >> me.
  >>
  >> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have brought up
  >> are my issues as well.
  >>
  >> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification, but
  >> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have not
  >> seen
  >>
  >> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased and
  >> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone can
  >> convince me that their program for implementing certification will not
  >> cost
  >> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no
  >> certification" gal.
  >>
  >> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes from
  >> the
  >>
  >> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to "help"
  >> the
  >> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I am
  >> not
  >>
  >> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am old
  >> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies offering
  >> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do not
  >> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would 
  >> rather
  >> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new ones
  >> that
  >> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for blind
  >> people.
  >>
  >> JMO, a'course
  >> Julie
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> ----- Original Message ----- 
  >> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
  >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.  Well
  >>> why
  >>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by individual
  >>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
  >>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
  >>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not a
  >>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but that
  >>> the
  >>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and
  >>> trained
  >>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a state
  >>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
  >>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
  >>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is that
  >>> not
  >>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide
  >>> prior
  >>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? I
  >>> am
  >>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently
  >>> trained
  >>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
  >>> afforded?
  >>>
  >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>> CEO/Founder
  >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>> New York, New York  10004
  >>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  >>> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
  >>> is
  >>> doing it."
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>> Behalf
  >>> Of The Pawpower Pack
  >>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
  >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>>
  >>> Albert,
  >>>
  >>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
  >>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
  >>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
  >>>
  >>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training
  >>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide
  >>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
  >>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
  >>> allowed on pubtrans.
  >>>
  >>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
  >>> training into places of public accommodation.
  >>>
  >>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
  >>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
  >>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think
  >>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
  >>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
  >>> involved in certifying my dog.
  >>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
  >>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
  >>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
  >>> largely non-disabled trainers.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
  >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
  >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
  >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
  >>> -- Coretta Scott King
  >>> pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>
  >>>
  >>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>
  >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
  >>>
  >>> _______________________________________________
  >>> nagdu mailing list
  >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >>> nagdu:
  >>>
  >>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
  >>> org
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> _______________________________________________
  >>> nagdu mailing list
  >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >>> nagdu:
  >>>
  >>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>.
  >> net
  >>>
  >>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> nagdu mailing list
  >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >> nagdu:
  >>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
  >> org
  >>
  >>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> nagdu mailing list
  >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
  >> nagdu:
  >>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>.
  > net
  >>
  >
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > nagdu mailing list
  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > nagdu:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
  > org
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > nagdu mailing list
  > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
  > nagdu:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net> 


  _______________________________________________
  nagdu mailing list
  nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>



More information about the NAGDU mailing list