[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Jan 1 19:27:38 UTC 2010


Albert,

I'm late, I know.  But my understanding is that this already happens with
the major schools.  At least with guide dogs.  There are days when we go
downtown where you can't swing a cat without hitting a guide dog in training
with a sighted trainer from GDB.  They use the same training grounds I have,
in fact.  And puppy raisers with their charges in green GDB vests are also a
common sight.  One point on which many people evaluate prospective guide dog
schools when they start applying is by what kind of training the school does
in what scenarios.  The early training goes on in simulated environments,
too; but when the pups are ready, out they go to work in the real world!

I know there are trainers out there who train guide dogs (for a hefty fee!)
privately, and I don't know how they deal with the real world part of the
training process.  But the reputable programs definintely have that covered
already!

One thing I have found as an owner trainer is that *not* having a good
simulation environment for some task and behavior training makes things a
bit tough, at least for a trainer of a Mitzi poodle!  We managed to work it
out using a gradual exposure method the name of which I can't think just
now.  Not being able to see what that nose was up to was also a big
drawback, although it only got out of bounds on its own a time or two early
on, and it did not cause a disaster.  I'm still jumpy in restaurants,
though, just because of all the things I used to have to watch out for!
/lol/  We did all the ground training and stuff way before we started going
into public, of course, but I also had to do a lot of exposure training on
the fly with her to start teaching her to manage that energy and
overstimulation.  I feel exhausted just thinking about it!  /lol/  Then
someone would come up and tell me they've been breeding poodles for 900
years and have never seen such a mellow poodle!  Talk about having your hair
stand on end.

Anyway, whether you're a program or an owner-trainer, yes, you do have to do
a lot of socialization and exposure and real world work with your dog in
training before you can call it a "real' guide dog or service dog.  And as
an owner-trainer, you do have to figure out how to manage access issues with
your green pup so that everybody is happy and you don't cause problems for
yourself or for the next person who wants to come in with a guide dog.  But
we do seem to be well enough protected by the existing laws, and adding a
federally required certification won't change that!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 11:45 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.  Well why
is there an assumption that certification will be granted by individual
schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not a
certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but that the
trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and trained
either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a state
standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is that not
proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide prior
to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? I am
not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently trained
in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are afforded?

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Albert,

Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train  
herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.   
It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!

Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training  
for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide  
work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to  
bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are  
allowed on pubtrans.

I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in  
training into places of public accommodation.

There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word  
"certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a  
slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think  
it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers  
and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be  
involved in certifying my dog.
My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not  
think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of  
persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of  
largely non-disabled trainers.


Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
"Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you  
earn it and win it in every generation."
-- Coretta Scott King
pawpower4me at gmail.com

Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss

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