[nagdu] Questions and Comments from J. Q. Public
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Fri Jan 1 23:27:30 UTC 2010
Hi, Albert,
The most common questions that I get when traveling with Panda are:
Is that a dog?
Can I pet your pony?
How big will that pony be when it grows up?
May I take a picture of you and your pony? (This question is invariably asked by someone who has stopped their car blocking a crosswalk as we are in
the act of crossing the street.)
Can my kids come say hi to your pony? (After much experience with this question, I have learned that the translation into English is: Can I let my
children come and climb all over your guide animal and stick their fingers in her mouth and eyes?)
And some common comments are:
Wow, that's a big dog!
Look, there's a lady with a cow! (or donkey!)
As you can easily perceive from the above examples, the questions and comments that I hear rarely rise to the level of discussing distinctions of whether the animal which accompanies me is a pet or a working animal, or
what her function actually is, or how she was trained or how she is handled; we are usually at a rather basic level of understanding, that of determining the species of my partner or whether I myself am aware that it is not a canine by my side.
But haven't you been greeted with my favorite J Q Public exclamation from my guide dog user days?"Look, there's a blind dog!"
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Ann
----- Original Message ----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <
albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<
nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
> You got that right. I also like the ones that tell me isn't your dog
> supposed to be a german Sheppard? I so wonder what type of questions
> panda
> gets thrown at him as a guide pony?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
>
www.myblindspot.org
>
PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:54 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Don't worry, Albert! As soon as you get over being startled by one set of
> questions, you will get asked a new and even more totally off the wall one
> by the next 10 people you meet. /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> You know the questions I love to get, not really, are the ones like "does
> the dog ever get to play"? I mean really. They truly do not get that in
> every way the dog is a dog and needs to be treated as such, but he loves
> to
> work and does so with pride. he is a spoiled little pup, not so little
> just
> over 90 lbs. I also like when they notice he picks something off the
> ground
> and they are in awe that he would do that. he is a lab so he does what
> most
> labs do and that would most certainly include picking up paper and
> chewing
> on it between rides or rests at the bus stop. I love the questions, just
> shocked at some of them for sure. happy and healthy to you
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
>
www.myblindspot.org
>
PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:31 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Very true! It can be said that each of us does that each time we go out
> with our guides and are seen going about our business safely and
> confidently
> while our dogs lead us around obstacles and stop at curbs and all the
> other
> things they do. Going out and about is also a good time to answer
> questions
> while you're waiting at a stop light, riding the bus or or train or
> whatever. There are days I would rather not not, but I always find I
> enjoyed the conversations I've had in retrospect. Even some of the
> sillier
> ones. /lol/
>
> There was recently a public education in my neck of the woods, put on by
> the
> dept. or agriculture or some such, and it's been interesting getting
> questions based on the public's understanding of that effort. Just when I
> get used to the same old questions... /lol/ But people are learning and
> are genuinely making conversation with me while attempting to advance
> their
> own understanding. So they ask me what my dog does for me? Er... She's
> a
> guide dog, I will explain helpfully. Quick on my feet, I am! /grin/ Yes,
> but what does she *do* for you? Does she pick things up? Does she tell
> you
> when it's safe to cross the street? Does she...? As a guide dog user, I
> find some of these suggestions silly indeed, but it's a good chance to
> discuss and explain.
>
> Of course, when it's at the dog park, and I'm proudly outlining the
> impressive list of functions my dog performs, then we both look at her to
> see that crazy bunny lope of hers with the maniaacal poodle grin, it seems
> they just can't cope with the concept that such a creature can do serious
> work. /lol/ The conversation falters after that. But still, I think I
> can
> say that both myself and the questioner learned something. And Mitzi does
> do a good job of showing that a guide dog out of harness is, after all, a
> dog. Or whatever that wild curly thing of mine is. /lol/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:37 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> I like your reference to community. It takes a village as they say. But at
> the root of what you spoke of is active and participatory education that
> each of us, blind and sighted, republican and democrat, are bound to as
> members of this great society of ours. I agree that the instances must be
> far and few between and that changing things will most certainly open
> doors
> for other needless dialogues. But if we were to go out into our
> communities
> and dispel ignorance one store front at a time, if and when they present
> themselves we will do more for the legislation in place then would be
> done
> in changing it before it is properly exercised.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
>
www.myblindspot.org
>
PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Steve Johnson
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 5:13 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> The other end to this Buddy, might be the immplementation of a registry
> which would also bring in yet another cost to us, or shall I say a tax.
> Just one more layer to uncover here as it is generally required that if
> one
> is certified, they also have to pay additional annual registry fee, which
> would be undoubtedly be passed down to the user in some way shape or form.
> Just what we need, another tax. So by creating a certification, this
> would
> do what, create a reason to have our animals registered on a national
> registry, and why would we need or want this? Maybe I am reading too much
> into this whole idea of a certification, but isn't this pretty accurate?
> Teachers, O&M instructors, all have certification processes, and have
> their
> professional registries etc., and we need this for opening up access to
> animals in training that are being denied access how often?
>
> I'd bet you 10:1 that individuals has self-trained on this list serve,
> they
> had very little problem in accessing places of public accommodation while
> training their guide. And this is why? They are well-known in their
> communities, have established a solid reputation, and are simply not
> faking
> it.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <
buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <
nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Actually, no. Unless and until I can see a fair and cost-effective
>> program
>
>> that would be administered by people who have a clue (and unfortunately,
>> I
>
>> don't see any way such a thing can happen, given the aforementioned
>> complexities coupled with government's abysmal track record at such
>> things), there's no way I can support certification. There are far too
>> many ways a certification program can either be screwed up or screw
>> somebody over.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>
>>> So would it be safe to assume that you support certification from your
>>> statement?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>
www.myblindspot.org
>>>
PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Buddy Brannan
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:32 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>>
>>>> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
>>>> to
>>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>>>> diabetic
>>>> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
>>>> prescribed
>>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>
>>> Actually, let's not.
>>>
>>> The current definition for a service animal is, IMO, not too bad, i.e.
>>> any
>>> definition of service animal must of necessity include that the animal
>>> must
>>> be task trained, etc. etc. If we open up the definition further to
>>> include
>>> so-called "emotional support animals", well, it isn't much further to go
>>> to
>>> allow pets of all kinds. Mind you, I don't have a problem with pets in
>>> public places so long as they're well-behaved and under good control.
>>> Sadly,
>>> hoever, most are not, but I digress. For the brief time I was the
>>> membership
>>> coordinator for IAADP (last year, actually), you wouldn't believe the
>>> number
>>> of calls and Emails I had to field from people who would call asking
>>> about
>>> their rights as handlers of service dogs, but it turned out that these
>>> dogs
>>> had no formal task training. The dog "calmed me by its presence" or
>>> other
>>> such nonsense. Friends, that is what we in the biz call a "pet".
>>>
>>> Now a dog that alerts to seizures, diabetic highs or lows, perhaps
>>> severe
>>> allergens (yes, really, might be a stretch--I don't know), and so on, I
>>> would think qualifies as a service dog, if, again, it had specific task
>>> training to mitigate a disability. Say, a seizure alert dog that would
>>> alert
>>> its handler to an oncoming seizure, get him/her to a safe place before
>>> the
>>> onset of the seizure, then pressed a 911 call button. Or a dog that
>>> provided
>>> support to someone who had some balance or other issue. But comfort or
>>> anchor to reality or what have you are not trained tasks.
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>
www.myblindspot.org
>>>>
PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
>>>> the
>>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>> constitute
>>>> one really?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <
albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <
nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage which
>>>> is
>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>>> are
>>>> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>>>> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
>>> such
>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>>> using
>>>> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
>>> companions
>>>> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>>>> them
>>>> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be held
>>>> to
>>> a
>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>>>> dogs
>>> do
>>>> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>>>> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>>>> proportions could be meaningful.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>
www.myblindspot.org
>>>>
PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>
>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>>>> certification
>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
>>>> the
>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>>> accommodation.
>>>>
>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>>>> would'nt
>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>>>> entity
>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>> places
>>>> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
>>>> provides
>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
>>>> in
>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>> where
>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>>> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are not
>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>> functional
>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>>
>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>>>> expand
>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>>>> specifically
>>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>>> are
>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>>
>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
>>> the
>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
>>> that
>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
>>> and
>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
>>>> word.
>>>>
>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
>>> that
>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>> providing
>>>> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>>
>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>>> people
>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>> those
>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>>>>> outfit
>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
>>>>> knows
>>>>> what
>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
>>>>> why
>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>> School
>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>>>> Would
>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>>
>>>>> CL
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The guide
>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>>>>> PWD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
>>>> urytel.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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