[nagdu] ownership
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Jan 2 15:35:40 UTC 2010
Merry,
I just yesterday put a feeler out to the GDF on this subject. I wrote to
wells jones, the CEO, I most probably will hear back from his assistant Pam,
I wrote to Karen in consumer affairs, mike sergeant who is the head of
training, though that is not his formal title, south eastern's loss was
totally our gain, and Katherine fritz in development. I asked them to give
me those clauses which high light each option for handlers. I will send it
to you for review when I get it.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:11 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
Though GDF does provide ownership, there are some strings attached that
I intend to discuss with them. Since I do not have the ownership agreement
in front of me, I will withhold my comments concerning the details.
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ownership
> Albert,
>
> GDF does offer ownership.
>
> For me ownership is an absolute must. People's views on ownership vary
> considerably. We've discussed it here before and I'm sure it will come up
> in another 6 months again. It is one of the topics that we all just agree
> to disagree on.
>
> We've discussed financial contributions toward the price of a guide dog
> too. I'm still in favor. Perhaps it's my own personal issues that make me
> feel uncomfortable with the idea of not paying for something. I don't
> know.
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Well I own my dog, I am not borrowing Maxx and giving him back when he
>> retires.
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Contractor
>> www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>> You can also find me on:
>> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> It was also presented to us that, and perhaps such was said to drive
>> others
>> away from one school or another, but that a blind person should not
>> expect
>> to pay anything for a guide. But cheryl, Margo let me know that those
>> handlers going to seeing eye in fact, for the nominal fee she told me
>> about,
>> allows for complete ownership of the guide, where you and I simply are
>> loaned the dog, and if push ever came to shove, they could take the dog
>> back
>> if cause was justified. I am inclined to see the value of contributing
>> in
>> some way to the process, to help keep costs down. I myself have seen fit
>> to
>> actively participate in raising over 75k for the gdf as a way to pay for
>> the
>> privilege of getting a guide.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 7:54 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Margo I totally understand this, since at the Guide Dog Foundation we do
>> not
>> pay anything, and since Albert and I are both newly blind people with
>> our
>> first guide dogs, we don't know that other schools charge a price. We
>> didn't and so that many others may not know this either.
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Contractor
>>
>>
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevar
riatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
>>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
el.com>>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>> You can also find me on:
>> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Margo and
>> Arrow<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net>>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> Albert, I see nothing wrong with paying something for my dog guide.
>> Absolutely nothing. what is this harsh reality stuff? I don't
>> understand.
>>
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>>
>>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> > Thank you for the kind words and for the suggested readings. Also,
>> thank
>>
>> > you
>> > for the harsh reality that some of my blind peers in fact are
>> required
>> to
>> > pay for their guides. I never knew that was the case as the
>> foundation I
>>
>> > got
>> > my guide from required nothing of me just that I had strong cane
>> skills.
>>
>> > I
>> > had no idea. I also have been reading marching alone and walking
>> together
>> > and draw so much inspiration and determination from that book, that
>> I am
>> > looking forward to reading your other suggestions. I do realize how
>> far
>>
>> > the
>> > civil rights movement has come for the afircan Americans, women,
>> gays,
>> and
>> > oh so many others which make up the mosaic that is our country. I
>> also
>> > appreciate the advancements realized for the blind and the disabled
>> > community yet still am lost about understanding the whys of how much
>> more
>> > needs to be done to ensure equality and access. I have accepted my
>> > calling
>> > to be a force to be reckoned with to further the efforts of my
>> > predescesors
>> > and be a catalyst to further that effort. I have much to learn, and
>> have
>> > lost much, but not as much as I have gained in seeing life from the
>> new
>> > perspective that blindness has brought to my life. Perhaps off line
>> we
>> > could
>> > talk about my efforts which are well underway to making my county
>> and
>> then
>> > my state the model for technology access one school at a time, one
>> town
>> > hall
>> > at a time and one county at a time, and then state by state. I am
>> here
>> > for
>> > the long haul and refuse to accept being marginalized or
>> disenfranchised
>>
>> > by
>> > anyone or anything just because I am blind. I did not accept it as
>> a
>> gay
>> > man and I plan to work my blindness as positively and empoweringly
>> as
>> I
>> > did in getting others to see me as a man who happened to be gay
>> rather
>> > then
>> > a gay man. I thank you and do know I value your experience and
>> knowledge
>> > in this new way I navigate life. Peace.
>> >
>> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> > CEO/Founder
>> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> > New York, New York 10004
>> >
>>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>> > PH: 917-553-0347
>> > Fax: 212-858-5759
>> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>> is
>> > doing it."
>> >
>> >
>> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From:
>>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> > Of Julie J
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:37 PM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >
>> > Albert,
>> >
>> > Some guide dogs do cost substantial amounts of money. The Seeing
>> Eye
>> > charges $150 for your first guide from there. Noah's Assistance
>> Dogs
>> > charges $1,500 for a guide or service dog. Some blind people choose
>> to
>> > use
>> > a private trainer which could cost several thousand dollars. I do
>> know
>> of
>> > a
>> >
>> > couple other very small programs that charge substantial amounts for
>> their
>> > guide dogs. Owner trainers financial investments vary considerably.
>> If
>>
>> > you
>> >
>> > purchase a dog from a reputable breeder it could cost thousands.
>> Add in
>>
>> > the
>> >
>> > cost of health screening tests, equipment, training expenses and
>> other
>> > incidentals and you could be looking at thousands of dollars on top
>> of
>> the
>> > cost of the dog.
>> >
>> > You also mentioned that the Florida laws are a good starting place,
>> but
>> > that
>> >
>> > individuals are still being denied access. I'd like to point out
>> that
>> > civil
>> >
>> > rights laws for racial minority groups and women are much older than
>> the
>>
>> > ADA
>> >
>> > and those groups still experience discrimination. It has only been
>> about
>> > 20
>> >
>> > years for the ADA and I think we have made substantial progress in
>> that
>> > time. Social change isn't going to happen overnight.
>> >
>> > You admit being new to blindness and not understanding everything.
>> I
>> > commend you for being so diligent about learning. I really think
>> reading
>> > everything you possibly can from
>> >
>>
http://www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.or
g/>>
>> > especially the older more historical documents will help you
>> understand
>> > what
>> >
>> > blind people have struggled with and overcome in the past. I think
>> it
>> > might
>> >
>> > help you understand why many of the folks on this list have the
>> beliefs
>> > that
>> >
>> > we do. We understand what has been tried, what worked and what
>> didn't.
>> > I've been legally blind for around 17 years now. Many of the people
>> on
>> > this
>> >
>> > list have been blind much longer than that and some their entire
>> life.
>> We
>> > are all still learning.
>> >
>> > If you can I'd also highly recommend reading "The Nature of
>> Independence"
>> > it's available at the NFB site I linked above. This article helped
>> me
>> > immensely when I was transitioning from newly acquired blindness
>> skills
>> to
>> > living in the real world.
>> >
>> > HTH
>> > Julie
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>> >
>>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:45 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >
>> >
>> >>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as
>> has
>> >>been
>> >> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog. I am new
>> to
>> >> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide
>> guides
>> >> free
>> >> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is
>> to
>> >> be,
>> >> must be determined independently and not by any individual school,
>> but
>> by
>> >> a
>> >> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the
>> skill
>> set
>> >> sufficient to create a certification program which would better
>> ensure
>> >> well
>> >> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has
>> >> impacted
>> >> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>> >> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we
>> as a
>> >> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and
>> promising
>> >> for
>> >> all. I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do
>> not
>> >> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and
>> others
>> >> is
>> >> a cost of those looking for the certification and education
>> sufficient
>> >> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas.
>> I
>> see
>> >> how
>> >> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but
>> as
>> >> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores
>> and
>> >> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about
>> the
>> ADA
>> >> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> CEO/Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >>
>>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>>
>> >> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From:
>>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Julie J
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >> Albert,
>> >>
>> >> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap
>> out
>> of
>> >> me.
>> >>
>> >> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have
>> brought
>> up
>> >> are my issues as well.
>> >>
>> >> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to
>> certification,
>> but
>> >> rather the implementation of that certification. As of yet I have
>> not
>> >> seen
>> >>
>> >> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair,
>> unbiased
>> and
>> >> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers. If someone
>> can
>> >> convince me that their program for implementing certification will
>> not
>> >> cost
>> >> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up. Until then I'm a
>> "no
>> >> certification" gal.
>> >>
>> >> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes
>> from
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to
>> "help"
>> >> the
>> >> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.
>> I
>> am
>> >> not
>> >>
>> >> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I
>> am
>> old
>> >> enough to know lots of other blind people who were. Agencies
>> offering
>> >> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services
>> do
>> not
>> >> have a good track record. Really I like the current laws and would
>> >> rather
>> >> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new
>> ones
>> >> that
>> >> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for
>> blind
>> >> people.
>> >>
>> >> JMO, a'course
>> >> Julie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>> >>
>>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.
>> Well
>> >>> why
>> >>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by
>> individual
>> >>> schools, rather then an independent body comprised of end users
>> an
>> >>> professionals from the field? Anything different would most
>> certainly
>> >>> appear self serving for those schools to determined who is or is
>> not
>> a
>> >>> certified trainer. I am not supporting that dogs be certified,
>> but
>> that
>> >>> the
>> >>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified
>> and
>> >>> trained
>> >>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a
>> state
>> >>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to
>> be
>> >>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they
>> will
>> >>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.
>> Is
>> that
>> >>> not
>> >>> proper? I mean there is significant training that goes into a
>> guide
>> >>> prior
>> >>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that
>> position?
>> I
>> >>> am
>> >>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be
>> sufficiently
>> >>> trained
>> >>> in areas where public accommodation as defined under the ADA are
>> >>> afforded?
>> >>>
>> >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >>> CEO/Founder
>> >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >>> New York, New York 10004
>> >>>
>>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>> >>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>> one
>> who
>> >>> is
>> >>> doing it."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From:
>>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>> Behalf
>> >>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>>
>> >>> Albert,
>> >>>
>> >>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained. She did not train
>> >>> herself. If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me
>> know.
>> >>> It'd save me quite a bit of work. Grin!
>> >>>
>> >>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access
>> training
>> >>> for quite some time. I have known an owner trainer to train the
>> guide
>> >>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed
>> to
>> >>> bring their pets. In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs
>> are
>> >>> allowed on pubtrans.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>> >>> training into places of public accommodation.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>> >>> "certified." I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>> >>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams. I
>> think
>> >>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own
>> trainers
>> >>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not
>> be
>> >>> involved in certifying my dog.
>> >>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said. I do not
>> >>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights
>> of
>> >>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>> >>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>> >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>> >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won,
>> you
>> >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>> >>> -- Coretta Scott King
>> >>>
>>
pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.
com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Windows Live Only:
>>
>>
Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotma
il.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>>
>> >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>
>>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na
gdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >>>
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet
.or>
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >>> nagdu:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
<
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>
>> .
>> >>> org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>
>>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na
gdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >>>
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet
.or>
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >>> nagdu:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>
<
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>
>
>> .
>> >> net
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >>
>>
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gdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >>
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