[nagdu] owner training was a bunch of other stuff

Sun Jan 3 16:48:54 UTC 2010

I have not had a dog from a program, so I can't make any comparisons there. 
I do have an incredible sense of accomplishment though.  As far as 
trust...well, we are a new team and still working on it.

I think there is a major difference with trust when you owner train vs. 
going through a program.  Dogs from programs are fully trained when you 
begin working with the dog.  the dog is, or should be, trustworthy from day 
1.  You immediately begin building your partnership from there.

when you owner train, the dog hasn't a clue about anything on day 1.  You 
could easily get seriously injured if you trusted to the dog to do any sort 
of guiding.  Over the next weeks and months, as you train the various tasks, 
the dog will gain proficiency at being trustworthy.  However during that 
time the blind handler has been the one responsible for the safety of the 
team.  Making the transition of responsibility of safety from the handler to 
the dog is emotionally and mentally a tough step, at least for me.  Monty 
doesn't seem to have had any problems with it though.

I am going to hypothesize that the transfer of responsibility might be 
easier on the dog trained by a blind person than a guide trained by a 
sighted person.  I think the gradual transfer of responsibility is easier on 
the dog than the blindfold test at the end of all the guide training. 
Anyhow when I train my guides I give over trust bit by bit.  Once he is 
reliable at stopping at curbs, I expect him to be responsible for that. 
However traffic avoidance will still remain my responsibility.

It may all sound wonderful when I write about it, but I assure you I 
questioned my choices and my sanity every day for the 15 months it took to 
train Monty.   Especially after Belle not working out long term.   I think 
there are a lot more disadvantages to owner training than I have led you to 
believe.

JMO
Julie
Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] owner training was a bunch of other stuff

> You make such a wonderful case for owner training. I could not begin to
> imagine the sense of accomplishment realized or the bond developed not to
> mention the level of trust one would gain from this choice.  I will not go
> near the spectrum of opinions you mentioned but to say bully for you to do
> it for you and no one other reason. To many people forget that doing 
> things
> for our self  is the most empowering reason to do anything. As a bit of
> history, one of the earliest references or illustrations in literature 
> about
> the blind and their bond with dogs, first appeared in a Charles dickens
> novel.  The blind man as I think you intimated had a cane or a walking 
> staff
> and a dog.  The dogs were a combination of mobility aid and an alarm or
> alert system to on coming guests or passers by.  Very interesting stuff.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] owner training was a bunch of other stuff
>
> Owner training has been around for a long, long while.  I had an O&M
> professional tell me of ancient text or drawings that tell of blind people
> using small dogs to guide them by means of a stiff pole attached to their
> collar.  No clue where he got that info though.
>
> At any rate owner training precedes program trained guides by
> hundreds/thousands? of years.  However just like current days, instances 
> of
> blind people training their own guide dogs were rare.
>
> I think there are two main reasons for the rarity of owner training. 
> First
> it is a load of work.  I don't just mean time consuming or labor 
> intensive,
> I mean like every. single. day. hours. per. day. WORK.   It took me a year
> to train Belle and about 15 months with Monty.  They were both around 9
> months old when I got them.   Other owner trainers training times may 
> vary,
> the shortest I have heard of is 4 months.
>
> You have to have a clue about dog training, be willing to learn and it's a
> steep learning curve or you have to have knowledgeable trainers willing to
> help you.   the simple truth is that most people do not have the knowledge
> or inclination to gain it that is needed.  Nothing wrong with that.  It's 
> a
> choice.
>
> Choosing the dog is the most difficult part.  You need a dog of a specific
> size range, temperament and health.  Depending on your particular
> circumstances there will most likely be additional requirements that you
> want or need in the dog.   I wanted a larger dog, but Monty  still 
> exceeded
> my expectations!  I wanted a male.  I wanted a low shedding/short hair 
> breed
>
> because of my husband's sensitivities.  I am fond of floppy ears.  I 
> prefer
> a energetic, outgoing exuberant dog.  Intelligence is also a must for me. 
> I
>
> like a bold confident dog.  I like a dog that is mainly bonded to me, but
> also enjoys my family.
>
> All of my guides have come from rescue organizations, although I looked at
> many options.  The rescue organizations just happened to have what I was
> looking for. The cost has been minimal, around $100 to $150.  My phone 
> bill
> however, was probably twice that when calling prospects to talk to them
> about their dogs.  My time was the biggest investment.  I cannot begin to
> count the hours spent in researching breeds, breeders, rescues, breed 
> rescue
>
> programs, talking to people about particular dogs and actually going to 
> look
>
> at dogs.  Oh and also fuel to get to those places and the time and 
> kindness
> of my husband who drove me. Remember I live in a small town.  there isn't 
> a
> lot to choose from in the immediate vicinity.  Monty came from about an 
> hour
>
> and a half away from where I live.
>
> then there is the cost of equipment.  A harness and handle will cost 
> between
>
> $80 and $350, depending on the material and options you choose.  Then 
> there
> are collars, leashes, coats, dishes, toys, food, preventative medications,
> as needed medications, veterinary care, screening tests, and training
> equipment.
>
> There are a lot of incidental costs when training.  Practicing laying
> quietly under the table while at an outdoor cafe requires that I purchase
> food for myself.  Practicing riding in a car, bus, or other transportation
> requires that I buy a ticket or pay a fare.  At the very least it will 
> cost
> me doing something nice for my husband if he is the driver that day.   the
> primary cost is time though.  When you are training a guide dog you have 
> to
> center the excursions around the training of the dog, not what you need to
> get done that day.  For example if I need to get groceries, I have two
> choices I can plan an appropriate training exercise to the grocery store
> that includes me picking up the 5 most important items or I can leave the
> dog at home and get all my groceries.
>
> I mainly choose to owner train because I love to do it.  It would be an
> absolutely disastrous failure if you didn't love the process.   If you 
> just
> want a guide dog, go through a program.   If you love the idea of training
> then continue to explore owner training.
>
> I think the second reason that more people don't owner train their guides 
> is
>
> social pressure.  blind people are constantly told what we can and can't 
> do.
>
> Often this comes from other blind people in addition to the sighted public
> and of course the professionals.  After a while it becomes difficult to
> separate out what is really not doable and what is just perceived to not 
> be
> doable.
>
> I have been told that I shouldn't train my own guide dog because it is
> dangerous.   I have been told that it is illegal, which it is not.  I have
> been told that it is unnecessary-that there are others to do that for me.
> I have had people be very angry with me.  I have had people in awe of me. 
> I
>
> have been scorned and applauded and every manner of thing in between.
>
> I don't owner train my guides for anyone but myself.  It doesn't bother me
> that some blind people get angry with my choice.  It doesn't flatter me 
> that
>
> some sighted people think I am amazing.  I do what I do because it is
> important to me.  I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
> 