[nagdu] Ownership

Marion & Martin swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Mon Jan 4 00:20:27 UTC 2010


Albert,
    The intimidation, whether active or passive, real or intentional, is 
something I hope to help schools understand better from a users point of 
view. One of the best ways to overcome this intimidation, I believe, is 
through a sound ownership agreement and policy. GDF's is fairly good and, in 
fact, is one of the reasons I have chosen them for my next guide dog. There 
are some points in their agreement I would like to discuss with them which I 
found unsettling. One of them is the requirement to send in health reports. 
I am not absolutely opposed to this, I just think it doesn't need to be a 
part of the ownership agreement and should be more voluntary. Another school 
has used this clause to threaten consumers with removal of their guides. I 
will write more on this issue later. For now, I need to prepare for our 
Board meeting! (smile)

Fraternally yours,
Marion



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


> When I learned of that during my stay at the GDF, it seemed as though they
> had to state this, and while as you said it rarely happens, I must 
> confess,
> and you may fall down when you hear these words out of my mouth, even I 
> was
> intimidated and fearful that the mere thought of it being remotely 
> possible
> was unsettling. I am happy to hear that it is in the rare instance, and am
> unhappy to hear that intimidation tactics such as this are used. Thanks
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Albert,
>    Although some may think it is very rare to have a dog taken, there are 
> a
>
> couple of schools that are more prone to do so than others. Even if they
> don't actually remove the dog, these schools use the threat of doing so to
> intimidate their graduates. Why they would want to do this is beyond my
> comprehension, but it is happening rather frequently.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Yeah I agree, but I did stop and worry after being plastered in the 
>> middle
>> of psychology  today with him. there is fine print about exploitation  of
>> the dog, while that is not what happened in the back of my mind I thought
>> that someone would call to say bad move.  They would have to pry my dead
>> fingers from his harness to get  him away from me.  it is a very very 
>> rare
>> instance where someone had their dog taken from them, so I always wonder
>> what purpose such a clause serves in the great scheme of things for the
>> gdf
>> and others that do not pass ownership onto the end user or handler.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Well I own my dog, I am not borrowing Maxx and giving him back when he
>> retires.
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Contractor
>> www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>> You can also find me on:
>> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>
>>  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:27 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>  It was also presented to us that, and perhaps such was said to drive
>> others
>>  away from one school or another, but that a blind person should not
>> expect
>>  to pay anything for a guide. But cheryl, Margo let me know that those
>>  handlers going to seeing eye in fact, for the nominal fee she told me
>> about,
>>  allows for complete ownership of the guide, where you and I simply are
>>  loaned the dog, and if push ever came to shove, they could take the dog
>> back
>>  if cause was justified. I am inclined to see the value of contributing 
>> in
>>  some way to the process, to help keep costs down. I myself have seen fit
>> to
>>  actively participate in raising over 75k for the gdf as a way to pay for
>> the
>>  privilege of getting a guide.
>>
>>  Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>  CEO/Founder
>>  My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>  90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>  New York, New York  10004
>>  www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>>  PH: 917-553-0347
>>  Fax: 212-858-5759
>>  "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>>  doing it."
>>
>>
>>  Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>  Of cheryl echevarria
>>  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 7:54 AM
>>  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>  Margo I totally understand this, since at the Guide Dog Foundation we do
>> not
>>  pay anything, and since Albert and I are both newly blind people with 
>> our
>>  first guide dogs, we don't know that other schools charge a price.  We
>>  didn't and so that many others may not know this either.
>>
>>  Cheryl Echevarria
>>  Independent Contractor
>>
>>
> www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevar
>> riatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
>>  1-866-580-5574
>>
>>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
>>
> ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
>> el.com>>
>>  Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>  You can also find me on:
>>  Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>>  LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    From: Margo and
>> Arrow<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net>>
>>    To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>  Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>    Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:45 AM
>>    Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>    Albert, I see nothing wrong with paying something for my dog guide.
>>    Absolutely nothing.  what is this harsh reality stuff?  I don't
>>  understand.
>>
>>    Margo and Arrow
>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>    To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>> Users'"
>>
>>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
>> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>    Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:52 PM
>>    Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>    > Thank you for the kind words and for the suggested readings. Also,
>> thank
>>
>>    > you
>>    > for the harsh reality that some of my blind peers in fact are
>> required
>>  to
>>    > pay for their guides. I never knew that was the case as the
>> foundation
>> I
>>
>>    > got
>>    > my guide from required nothing of me just that I had strong cane
>> skills.
>>
>>    > I
>>    > had no idea.  I also have been reading marching alone and walking
>>  together
>>    > and draw so much inspiration and determination from that book, that 
>> I
>> am
>>    > looking forward to reading your other suggestions.  I do realize how
>> far
>>
>>    > the
>>    > civil rights movement has come for the afircan Americans, women,
>> gays,
>>  and
>>    > oh so many others which make up the mosaic  that is our country. I
>> also
>>    > appreciate the advancements  realized for the blind and the disabled
>>    > community yet still am lost about understanding the whys of how much
>>  more
>>    > needs to be done to ensure equality and access.  I have accepted my
>>    > calling
>>    > to be a force to be reckoned  with to further the efforts of my
>>    > predescesors
>>    > and be a catalyst  to further that effort. I have much to learn, and
>>  have
>>    > lost much, but not as much as I have gained in seeing life from the
>> new
>>    > perspective that blindness has brought to my life. Perhaps off line
>> we
>>
>>    > could
>>    > talk about my efforts which are well underway to making my county 
>> and
>>  then
>>    > my state the model for technology access one school at a time, one
>> town
>>    > hall
>>    > at a time and one county at a time, and then state by state.  I am
>> here
>>    > for
>>    > the long haul and refuse to accept being marginalized or
>> disenfranchised
>>
>>    > by
>>    > anyone or anything just because  I am blind. I did not accept it as 
>> a
>>  gay
>>    > man and I plan to work my blindness as positively  and empoweringly
>> as
>>  I
>>    > did in getting others to see me as a man who happened to be gay
>> rather
>>
>>    > then
>>    > a gay man.  I thank you and do know I value your experience  and
>>  knowledge
>>    > in this new way I navigate  life. Peace.
>>    >
>>    > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>    > CEO/Founder
>>    > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>    > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>    > New York, New York  10004
>>    >
>>
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>    > PH: 917-553-0347
>>    > Fax: 212-858-5759
>>    > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>>  is
>>    > doing it."
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > -----Original Message-----
>>    > From:
>>
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>    > Of Julie J
>>    > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:37 PM
>>    > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>    > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>    >
>>    > Albert,
>>    >
>>    > Some guide dogs do cost substantial amounts of money.  The Seeing 
>> Eye
>>    > charges $150 for your first guide from there.  Noah's Assistance 
>> Dogs
>>    > charges $1,500 for a guide or service dog.  Some blind people choose
>> to
>>    > use
>>    > a private trainer which could cost several thousand dollars.  I do
>> know
>>  of
>>    > a
>>    >
>>    > couple other very small programs that charge substantial amounts for
>>  their
>>    > guide dogs.  Owner trainers financial investments vary considerably.
>> If
>>
>>    > you
>>    >
>>    > purchase a dog from a reputable breeder it could cost thousands. 
>> Add
>> in
>>
>>    > the
>>    >
>>    > cost of health screening tests, equipment, training expenses and
>> other
>>    > incidentals and you could be looking at thousands of dollars on top
>> of
>>  the
>>    > cost of the dog.
>>    >
>>    > You also mentioned that the Florida laws are a good starting place,
>> but
>>    > that
>>    >
>>    > individuals are still being denied access.  I'd like to point out
>> that
>>
>>    > civil
>>    >
>>    > rights laws for racial minority groups and women are much older than
>> the
>>
>>    > ADA
>>    >
>>    > and those groups still experience discrimination.  It has only been
>>  about
>>    > 20
>>    >
>>    > years for the ADA and I think we have made substantial progress in
>> that
>>    > time.  Social change isn't going to happen overnight.
>>    >
>>    > You admit being new to blindness and not understanding everything. 
>> I
>>    > commend you for  being so diligent about learning.  I really think
>>  reading
>>    > everything you possibly can from
>>    >
>>
> http://www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.or
>> g/>>
>>    > especially the older more historical documents will help you
>> understand
>>    > what
>>    >
>>    > blind people have struggled with and overcome in the past.  I think
>> it
>>
>>    > might
>>    >
>>    > help you understand why many of the folks on this list have the
>> beliefs
>>    > that
>>    >
>>    > we do.   We understand what has been tried, what worked and what
>> didn't.
>>    > I've been legally blind for around 17 years now.  Many of the people
>> on
>>    > this
>>    >
>>    > list have been blind much longer than that and some their entire
>> life.
>>  We
>>    > are all still learning.
>>    >
>>    > If you can I'd also highly recommend reading "The Nature of
>>  Independence"
>>    > it's available at the NFB site I linked above.  This article helped
>> me
>>    > immensely when I was transitioning from newly acquired blindness
>> skills
>>  to
>>    > living in the real world.
>>    >
>>    > HTH
>>    > Julie
>>    >
>>    >
>>    > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    > From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>    > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>>    >
>>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
>> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>    > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:45 PM
>>    > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as
>> has
>>
>>    >>been
>>    >> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new
>> to
>>    >> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide
>> guides
>>    >> free
>>    >> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is
>> to
>>    >> be,
>>    >> must be determined independently and not by any individual school,
>> but
>>  by
>>    >> a
>>    >> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the 
>> skill
>>  set
>>    >> sufficient to create a certification  program which would better
>> ensure
>>    >> well
>>    >> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has
>>    >> impacted
>>    >> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>>    >> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we
>> as
>> a
>>    >> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and
>>  promising
>>    >> for
>>    >> all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do
>> not
>>    >> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and
>>  others
>>    >> is
>>    >> a cost of those looking for the certification and education
>> sufficient
>>    >> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. 
>> I
>>  see
>>    >> how
>>    >> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but
>> as
>>    >> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores
>> and
>>    >> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about
>> the
>>  ADA
>>    >> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>>    >>
>>    >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>    >> CEO/Founder
>>    >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>    >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>    >> New York, New York  10004
>>    >>
>>
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>    >> PH: 917-553-0347
>>    >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>    >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>>
>>    >> is
>>    >> doing it."
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >> -----Original Message-----
>>    >> From:
>>
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>    >> Behalf
>>    >> Of Julie J
>>    >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>>    >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>    >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>    >>
>>    >> Albert,
>>    >>
>>    >> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap
>> out
>>  of
>>    >> me.
>>    >>
>>    >> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have
>> brought
>>  up
>>    >> are my issues as well.
>>    >>
>>    >> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to 
>> certification,
>>  but
>>    >> rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have
>> not
>>    >> seen
>>    >>
>>    >> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, 
>> unbiased
>>  and
>>    >> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone
>> can
>>    >> convince me that their program for implementing certification will
>> not
>>    >> cost
>>    >> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a
>> "no
>>    >> certification" gal.
>>    >>
>>    >> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes
>>  from
>>    >> the
>>    >>
>>    >> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to
>> "help"
>>    >> the
>>    >> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.
>> I
>>  am
>>    >> not
>>    >>
>>    >> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I
>> am
>>  old
>>    >> enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies
>> offering
>>    >> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services
>> do
>>  not
>>    >> have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would
>>    >> rather
>>    >> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new
>> ones
>>    >> that
>>    >> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for
>>  blind
>>    >> people.
>>    >>
>>    >> JMO, a'course
>>    >> Julie
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>
>>
> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds
>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>    >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>>    >>
>>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n
>> agdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>    >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>>    >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.
>>  Well
>>    >>> why
>>    >>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by
>>  individual
>>    >>> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users 
>> an
>>    >>> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most
>> certainly
>>    >>> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is
>> not
>>  a
>>    >>> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, 
>> but
>>  that
>>    >>> the
>>    >>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified
>> and
>>    >>> trained
>>    >>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a
>>  state
>>    >>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to
>> be
>>    >>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they
>> will
>>    >>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler. 
>> Is
>>  that
>>    >>> not
>>    >>> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a
>> guide
>>    >>> prior
>>    >>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that
>> position?
>>  I
>>    >>> am
>>    >>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be
>> sufficiently
>>    >>> trained
>>    >>> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are
>>    >>> afforded?
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>    >>> CEO/Founder
>>    >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>    >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>    >>> New York, New York  10004
>>    >>>
>>
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>    >>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>    >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>    >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the 
>> one
>>  who
>>    >>> is
>>    >>> doing it."
>>    >>>
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>    >>>
>>    >>>
>>    >>> -----Original Message-----
>>    >>> From:
>>
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>>  [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>    >>> Behalf
>>    >>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>    >>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>>    >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>    >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Albert,
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
>>    >>> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me 
>> know.
>>    >>> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access
>> training
>>    >>> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the
>> guide
>>    >>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed
>> to
>>    >>> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs 
>> are
>>    >>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>    >>>
>>    >>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>>    >>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>    >>>
>>    >>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
>>    >>> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>>    >>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I
>> think
>>    >>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own 
>> trainers
>>    >>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not
>> be
>>    >>> involved in certifying my dog.
>>    >>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
>>    >>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights 
>> of
>>    >>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>>    >>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>    >>>
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>    >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>    >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won,
>> you
>>    >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>    >>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>    >>>
>>
> pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.
>> com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
>>    >>>
>>    >>> Windows Live Only:
>>
>>
> Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotma
>> il.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>>
>>    >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>    >>>
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>> gdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>    >>>
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
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>> .or>
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>> <
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>>>
>>  .
>>    >>> org
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> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na
>> gdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>    >>>
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
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>> .or>
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>
>> <
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>
>>>
>>  .
>>    >> net
>>    >>>
>>    >>
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>>    >>
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
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>> <
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>>>
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>>    >> org
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>>    >>
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>> <
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<
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>>>
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>>    >
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
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>> <
>>
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>>
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>>    >
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>> o>
>>
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> n.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40
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>>
>>
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