[nagdu] Ownership
cheryl echevarria
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 4 13:18:09 UTC 2010
I don't. I have taken maxx to the vet near me, and I don't if I have issues with maxx, I will forward a vet report or my vet sends GDF a vet report.
They send then ever year so far as they told me, when he gets his annual shots, etc.
Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Contractor
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership
We are supposed to turn them in annually. I have foregone that for two
years.i never take my dogs to the vet annually, and I have a happy and peppy
16 year old cocker, named Frankie. His sister died 1 year ago this past may.
We are coming up on two years that she will be gone. I got them both
together in hyde park and named them franklin and Eleanor. They were
affectionately called Frankie and ellie.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Margo and Arrow
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 9:41 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership
So, you folks have to turn in vet reports at a set interval?
Margo and Arrow
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership
>I hope you had or are having a good board meeting. I have to agree with
>you
> on the medical reports. It is the one point that made me feel as if my
> ownership were in question. I seem to remember that day very well. I
> felt
> as if my dog would and could be taken away from me if I did anything
> wrong.
> I had only been blind 6 months and had terrible cane experiences,
> Manhattan
> go figure, but I was worried that the dog could be taken. Even as
> recently
> as this month. I was in psychology today magazine and thought that the
> pic
> we took could have violated something somehow. Wells Jones is a good guy.
> He has tremendous credentials in the non profit arena but I could see him
> being open to better empowering his clients. Talk when we talk.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 7:20 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership
>
> Albert,
> The intimidation, whether active or passive, real or intentional, is
> something I hope to help schools understand better from a users point of
> view. One of the best ways to overcome this intimidation, I believe, is
> through a sound ownership agreement and policy. GDF's is fairly good and,
> in
>
> fact, is one of the reasons I have chosen them for my next guide dog.
> There
> are some points in their agreement I would like to discuss with them which
> I
>
> found unsettling. One of them is the requirement to send in health
> reports.
> I am not absolutely opposed to this, I just think it doesn't need to be a
> part of the ownership agreement and should be more voluntary. Another
> school
>
> has used this clause to threaten consumers with removal of their guides. I
> will write more on this issue later. For now, I need to prepare for our
> Board meeting! (smile)
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> When I learned of that during my stay at the GDF, it seemed as though
>> they
>> had to state this, and while as you said it rarely happens, I must
>> confess,
>> and you may fall down when you hear these words out of my mouth, even I
>> was
>> intimidated and fearful that the mere thought of it being remotely
>> possible
>> was unsettling. I am happy to hear that it is in the rare instance, and
>> am
>> unhappy to hear that intimidation tactics such as this are used. Thanks
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:26 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Albert,
>> Although some may think it is very rare to have a dog taken, there are
>> a
>>
>> couple of schools that are more prone to do so than others. Even if they
>> don't actually remove the dog, these schools use the threat of doing so
>> to
>> intimidate their graduates. Why they would want to do this is beyond my
>> comprehension, but it is happening rather frequently.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> Yeah I agree, but I did stop and worry after being plastered in the
>>> middle
>>> of psychology today with him. there is fine print about exploitation
>>> of
>>> the dog, while that is not what happened in the back of my mind I
>>> thought
>>> that someone would call to say bad move. They would have to pry my dead
>>> fingers from his harness to get him away from me. it is a very very
>>> rare
>>> instance where someone had their dog taken from them, so I always wonder
>>> what purpose such a clause serves in the great scheme of things for the
>>> gdf
>>> and others that do not pass ownership onto the end user or handler.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of cheryl echevarria
>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:52 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Well I own my dog, I am not borrowing Maxx and giving him back when he
>>> retires.
>>>
>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>> Independent Contractor
>>> www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>>
>>
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>>
>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>> CST-1018299-10
>>> You can also find me on:
>>> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>>> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Few: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> It was also presented to us that, and perhaps such was said to drive
>>> others
>>> away from one school or another, but that a blind person should not
>>> expect
>>> to pay anything for a guide. But cheryl, Margo let me know that those
>>> handlers going to seeing eye in fact, for the nominal fee she told me
>>> about,
>>> allows for complete ownership of the guide, where you and I simply are
>>> loaned the dog, and if push ever came to shove, they could take the dog
>>> back
>>> if cause was justified. I am inclined to see the value of contributing
>>> in
>>> some way to the process, to help keep costs down. I myself have seen
>>> fit
>>> to
>>> actively participate in raising over 75k for the gdf as a way to pay
>>> for
>>> the
>>> privilege of getting a guide.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of cheryl echevarria
>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 7:54 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Margo I totally understand this, since at the Guide Dog Foundation we
>>> do
>>> not
>>> pay anything, and since Albert and I are both newly blind people with
>>> our
>>> first guide dogs, we don't know that other schools charge a price. We
>>> didn't and so that many others may not know this either.
>>>
>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>> Independent Contractor
>>>
>>>
>>
>
www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevar<http://www.echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/%3Chttp://www.echevar>
>>> riatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cm>
>>>
>>
>
ailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatrav
>>> el.com>>
>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>> CST-1018299-10
>>> You can also find me on:
>>> Facebook: Echevarriatravel.com
>>> LinkedIn: Cheryl Echevarria
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Margo and
>>> Arrow<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net<mailto:margo.downey at verizon.net%3Cmailto:margo.downey at verizon.net>>>
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> Albert, I see nothing wrong with paying something for my dog guide.
>>> Absolutely nothing. what is this harsh reality stuff? I don't
>>> understand.
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>>
>>>
>>
>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblinds>
>>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>>
>>>
>>
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n>
>>> agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:agdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> > Thank you for the kind words and for the suggested readings. Also,
>>> thank
>>>
>>> > you
>>> > for the harsh reality that some of my blind peers in fact are
>>> required
>>> to
>>> > pay for their guides. I never knew that was the case as the
>>> foundation
>>> I
>>>
>>> > got
>>> > my guide from required nothing of me just that I had strong cane
>>> skills.
>>>
>>> > I
>>> > had no idea. I also have been reading marching alone and walking
>>> together
>>> > and draw so much inspiration and determination from that book, that
>>> I
>>> am
>>> > looking forward to reading your other suggestions. I do realize
>>> how
>>> far
>>>
>>> > the
>>> > civil rights movement has come for the afircan Americans, women,
>>> gays,
>>> and
>>> > oh so many others which make up the mosaic that is our country. I
>>> also
>>> > appreciate the advancements realized for the blind and the
>>> disabled
>>> > community yet still am lost about understanding the whys of how
>>> much
>>> more
>>> > needs to be done to ensure equality and access. I have accepted my
>>> > calling
>>> > to be a force to be reckoned with to further the efforts of my
>>> > predescesors
>>> > and be a catalyst to further that effort. I have much to learn,
>>> and
>>> have
>>> > lost much, but not as much as I have gained in seeing life from the
>>> new
>>> > perspective that blindness has brought to my life. Perhaps off line
>>> we
>>>
>>> > could
>>> > talk about my efforts which are well underway to making my county
>>> and
>>> then
>>> > my state the model for technology access one school at a time, one
>>> town
>>> > hall
>>> > at a time and one county at a time, and then state by state. I am
>>> here
>>> > for
>>> > the long haul and refuse to accept being marginalized or
>>> disenfranchised
>>>
>>> > by
>>> > anyone or anything just because I am blind. I did not accept it as
>>> a
>>> gay
>>> > man and I plan to work my blindness as positively and empoweringly
>>> as
>>> I
>>> > did in getting others to see me as a man who happened to be gay
>>> rather
>>>
>>> > then
>>> > a gay man. I thank you and do know I value your experience and
>>> knowledge
>>> > in this new way I navigate life. Peace.
>>> >
>>> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> > CEO/Founder
>>> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> > New York, New York 10004
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>> > PH: 917-553-0347
>>> > Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who
>>> is
>>> > doing it."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From:
>>>
>>
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounce>
>>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> > Of Julie J
>>> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:37 PM
>>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> >
>>> > Albert,
>>> >
>>> > Some guide dogs do cost substantial amounts of money. The Seeing
>>> Eye
>>> > charges $150 for your first guide from there. Noah's Assistance
>>> Dogs
>>> > charges $1,500 for a guide or service dog. Some blind people
>>> choose
>>> to
>>> > use
>>> > a private trainer which could cost several thousand dollars. I do
>>> know
>>> of
>>> > a
>>> >
>>> > couple other very small programs that charge substantial amounts
>>> for
>>> their
>>> > guide dogs. Owner trainers financial investments vary
>>> considerably.
>>> If
>>>
>>> > you
>>> >
>>> > purchase a dog from a reputable breeder it could cost thousands.
>>> Add
>>> in
>>>
>>> > the
>>> >
>>> > cost of health screening tests, equipment, training expenses and
>>> other
>>> > incidentals and you could be looking at thousands of dollars on top
>>> of
>>> the
>>> > cost of the dog.
>>> >
>>> > You also mentioned that the Florida laws are a good starting place,
>>> but
>>> > that
>>> >
>>> > individuals are still being denied access. I'd like to point out
>>> that
>>>
>>> > civil
>>> >
>>> > rights laws for racial minority groups and women are much older
>>> than
>>> the
>>>
>>> > ADA
>>> >
>>> > and those groups still experience discrimination. It has only been
>>> about
>>> > 20
>>> >
>>> > years for the ADA and I think we have made substantial progress in
>>> that
>>> > time. Social change isn't going to happen overnight.
>>> >
>>> > You admit being new to blindness and not understanding everything.
>>> I
>>> > commend you for being so diligent about learning. I really think
>>> reading
>>> > everything you possibly can from
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.or<http://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.org/%3Chttp://www.nfb.org%3chttp//www.nfb.or>
>>> g/>>
>>> > especially the older more historical documents will help you
>>> understand
>>> > what
>>> >
>>> > blind people have struggled with and overcome in the past. I think
>>> it
>>>
>>> > might
>>> >
>>> > help you understand why many of the folks on this list have the
>>> beliefs
>>> > that
>>> >
>>> > we do. We understand what has been tried, what worked and what
>>> didn't.
>>> > I've been legally blind for around 17 years now. Many of the
>>> people
>>> on
>>> > this
>>> >
>>> > list have been blind much longer than that and some their entire
>>> life.
>>> We
>>> > are all still learning.
>>> >
>>> > If you can I'd also highly recommend reading "The Nature of
>>> Independence"
>>> > it's available at the NFB site I linked above. This article helped
>>> me
>>> > immensely when I was transitioning from newly acquired blindness
>>> skills
>>> to
>>> > living in the real world.
>>> >
>>> > HTH
>>> > Julie
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>>
>>>
>>
>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblinds>
>>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n>
>>> agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:agdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:45 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as
>>> has
>>>
>>> >>been
>>> >> my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog. I am
>>> new
>>> to
>>> >> blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide
>>> guides
>>> >> free
>>> >> of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it
>>> is
>>> to
>>> >> be,
>>> >> must be determined independently and not by any individual school,
>>> but
>>> by
>>> >> a
>>> >> seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the
>>> skill
>>> set
>>> >> sufficient to create a certification program which would better
>>> ensure
>>> >> well
>>> >> trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification
>>> has
>>> >> impacted
>>> >> so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
>>> >> certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we
>>> as
>>> a
>>> >> consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and
>>> promising
>>> >> for
>>> >> all. I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do
>>> not
>>> >> believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and
>>> others
>>> >> is
>>> >> a cost of those looking for the certification and education
>>> sufficient
>>> >> enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas.
>>> I
>>> see
>>> >> how
>>> >> the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from,
>>> but
>>> as
>>> >> recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores
>>> and
>>> >> transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about
>>> the
>>> ADA
>>> >> rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.
>>> >>
>>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> >> CEO/Founder
>>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> >> New York, New York 10004
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>>> one
>>> who
>>>
>>> >> is
>>> >> doing it."
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From:
>>>
>>
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounce>
>>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> >> Behalf
>>> >> Of Julie J
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
>>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> >>
>>> >> Albert,
>>> >>
>>> >> I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap
>>> out
>>> of
>>> >> me.
>>> >>
>>> >> All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have
>>> brought
>>> up
>>> >> are my issues as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to
>>> certification,
>>> but
>>> >> rather the implementation of that certification. As of yet I
>>> have
>>> not
>>> >> seen
>>> >>
>>> >> any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair,
>>> unbiased
>>> and
>>> >> would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers. If someone
>>> can
>>> >> convince me that their program for implementing certification will
>>> not
>>> >> cost
>>> >> more money and will not be biased I'll sign up. Until then I'm a
>>> "no
>>> >> certification" gal.
>>> >>
>>> >> I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification
>>> comes
>>> from
>>> >> the
>>> >>
>>> >> knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to
>>> "help"
>>> >> the
>>> >> blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.
>>> I
>>> am
>>> >> not
>>> >>
>>> >> old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I
>>> am
>>> old
>>> >> enough to know lots of other blind people who were. Agencies
>>> offering
>>> >> accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services
>>> do
>>> not
>>> >> have a good track record. Really I like the current laws and
>>> would
>>> >> rather
>>> >> live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new
>>> ones
>>> >> that
>>> >> would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms
>>> for
>>> blind
>>> >> people.
>>> >>
>>> >> JMO, a'course
>>> >> Julie
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>>>
>>>
>>
>
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblinds<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblinds>
>>> pot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
>>> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:n>
>>> agdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:agdu at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a
>>> scotch.
>>> Well
>>> >>> why
>>> >>> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by
>>> individual
>>> >>> schools, rather then an independent body comprised of end users
>>> an
>>> >>> professionals from the field? Anything different would most
>>> certainly
>>> >>> appear self serving for those schools to determined who is or is
>>> not
>>> a
>>> >>> certified trainer. I am not supporting that dogs be certified,
>>> but
>>> that
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified
>>> and
>>> >>> trained
>>> >>> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a
>>> state
>>> >>> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide
>>> to
>>> be
>>> >>> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they
>>> will
>>> >>> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.
>>> Is
>>> that
>>> >>> not
>>> >>> proper? I mean there is significant training that goes into a
>>> guide
>>> >>> prior
>>> >>> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that
>>> position?
>>> I
>>> >>> am
>>> >>> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be
>>> sufficiently
>>> >>> trained
>>> >>> in areas where public accommodation as defined under the ADA are
>>> >>> afforded?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> >>> CEO/Founder
>>> >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> >>> New York, New York 10004
>>> >>>
>>>
>>
>
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3
>>> chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
>>> >>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>>> one
>>> who
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> doing it."
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From:
>>>
>>
>
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounce>
>>> s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> >>> Behalf
>>> >>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
>>> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Albert,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained. She did not train
>>> >>> herself. If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me
>>> know.
>>> >>> It'd save me quite a bit of work. Grin!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access
>>> training
>>> >>> for quite some time. I have known an owner trainer to train the
>>> guide
>>> >>> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed
>>> to
>>> >>> bring their pets. In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs
>>> are
>>> >>> allowed on pubtrans.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
>>> >>> training into places of public accommodation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the
>>> word
>>> >>> "certified." I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
>>> >>> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams. I
>>> think
>>> >>> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own
>>> trainers
>>> >>> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not
>>> be
>>> >>> involved in certifying my dog.
>>> >>> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said. I do
>>> not
>>> >>> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights
>>> of
>>> >>> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
>>> >>> largely non-disabled trainers.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won,
>>> you
>>> >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>> >>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>> >>>
>>>
>>
>
pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail>.
>>> com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Windows Live Only:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotma<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotma>
>>> il.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>>
>>> >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>>> >>>
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> >>> nagdu:
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>>>
>>> .
>>> >>> org
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>>> >>>
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> >>> nagdu:
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>>
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>>
>>>>
>>> .
>>> >> net
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nagdu mailing list
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> >> nagdu:
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>>>
>>> .
>>> >> org
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nagdu mailing list
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> >> nagdu:
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>>
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream>>
>>>>
>>> .
>>> > net
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nagdu mailing list
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> > nagdu:
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>> <
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>>>
>>> .
>>> > org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nagdu mailing list
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> > nagdu:
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40veriz<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40veriz>
>>> o>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
n.net<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40>
>>> <http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40>>
>>> verizon.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:na>
>>> gdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:gdu at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet>
>>> .or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma>
>>>
>>
>
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotm<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotm>
>>> a>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
>>> 40hotmail.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot><
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>>
>>> .
>>> org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.or>
>>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma>
>>>
>>
>
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
>>> 40hotmail.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
>>> org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizo<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizo>
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
>> org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizo<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizo>
> n.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo>
n.net
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>.
org
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.com>
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list