[nagdu] Guide Dogs of America

Wed Jan 13 19:26:46 UTC 2010

Hi Julie,
I had gone to another school - GDF -  before settling on The Seeing Eye.  I 
always wanted to go to TSE from the start but at that time they didn't 
accept students with some usable vision.  Then they changed that policy 
sometime in the 1980s.  I was never comfortable with a contract which GDF 
had.  That's why I didn't return there when I was finally able to go to TSE. 
Then my first dog from Seeing Eye wasn't really suited for the work - 
something TSE watches out for now. then I moved to California.

When my TSE dog had to have an early retirement, I applied to the three CA 
schools.  GDB turned me down because they listened to untrue things about me 
and my dog handling.  At that time TSE was using some corrections no longer 
used by them and corrections that the CA schools didn't like - and some 
local guide dog users didn't like either.  I was accepted by GDA and GDD. 
GDA offered me a class sooner than GDD so I went there.

I have to admit that in 1990, I had NEVER flown cross country alone - just 
little short flights from Boston to either Long Island or New Jersey.  I was 
afraid to do it alone then.

After my GDA dog retired, I gave her to a friend who moved to another state. 
My dog was for her husband as she had a GDA dog herself.  then they moved 
back to San Diego.  Meanwhile, she gave up her GDA dog and kept the harness. 
She used the harness on my retired dog so she could take the dog with her on 
the bus.  The "busy-bodies" who sucessfully got me denied at GDB, came to 
life again and told GDA  and GDB that I gave this woman my retired guide so 
she could then use the dog.  And further, I gave her a harness to do this! 
I gave the dog to her husband and I sent my harness back to the school by 
mail after I retired the dog!

The Director Of Training of GDA, upon hearing this story, came to SD 
unannounced to our blind center where we were having craft class.  He took 
both me and the woman outside to chat about this.  He saw the GDA harness 
she was using - it was the new style one and not the same kind as I had been 
issued.  After our chat, he seemeed to be satisfied that I said I had 
nothing to do with the woman's actions, took the harness back and left.

A year later, after I healed from an injury that forced me to send my Eye 
Dog Fooundation dog back, I re-applied to GDA and GDB as I was not happy 
with the training at EDF.  I was turned down by both citing as the reason 
that I had given this woman my retired dog for her to use and that I gave 
her a harness to do this!  They said I VIOLATED the contract!  I had no 
control over what someone else did with my retired dog!!  So, as I found, 
you are bound by the contract even if you no longer have the dog!  You're 
supposed to euthanise the dog in order to ensure that the contract won't be 
violated???!! This is why I will NEVER go to a school with a contract!

Shortley after this fiasco, the woman decided that she could no longer keep 
the dog and the dog was returned to me.  I gave her to my sister-in-law and 
that's where the dog lived out the rest of her life.

It was an understatement to say I was VERY upset by this turn of events. 
This all did come back to "bite me". I was so upset at the people involved 
that I kept it secret that I decided to reapply at TSE.   I decided that I 
had no reason to be afraid to fly cross country alone!  I decided to go back 
to SEeing Eye, was accepted and flew on my own without any problem and I 
have since flown back and forth many times fear-free!  I also had to keep it 
a secret that I was even reapplying for a new dog at Seeing Eye.  The cat 
was let out of the bag when I left for class and everyone wondered where I 
was!  I swore my sister to secrecy and she could tell people where I was 
after I left! Further, I told TSE about what happened and I left them a list 
of names of the troublemakers and this list still resides in my TSE records! 
When they tried to cause me more trouble, TSE blew them off!

The interesting thing about all this is that the people at both GDA and GDB 
KNOW what kind of handler I am as I see them at events from time to time and 
they've seen me handle my dogs!  I have no respect for organizations that 
pay more attention to malicious rumorsmongering by a couple of disgruntled 
people who were really jealous of me for whatever. The ringleader of this 
has moved away and this nonsense has stopped.  this same small group has 
tried their crap on another local dog user as well but failed to do any harm 
to her.  My question is: Why were these people more credible than I was? I 
never got that answer, either.

Interestingly enough, I will still see these trainers from GDA and GDB at 
guide dog or blindness conventionns and they are very cordial towards me! 
(grin!)  I am cordial with them  However, I never received an apology! 
That's OK, I will NEVER apply to these schools again and I will stay with 
TSE as long as I can still use guide dogs!  They have ALWAYS shown respect 
and integrity towards me. There is respect both ways and I didn't have this 
with the California schools.

This isn't meant to bash any school.  This is my own experiences with them. 
These two schools do put out good dogs and people are very happy with them - 
I have no problem with that.

Hope this answers your question, Julie! (grin!)

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America

> Thanks!  I read their survey info from GDUI.  According to that they place 
> about 50 dogs per year and the class limit is 10 students.  They also 
> state that they offer their services in the entire U.S. and Canada.
>
> If you don't mind, what made you decide to get your successor dogs from 
> TSE?
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>
>
>> Julie,
>> I've only seen GDA dogs here in California although, I'm sure, they have 
>> graduates in other states. Yes, they are a small school. they train about 
>> 6-12 students on class.  I don't know how many classes they have per 
>> year.They have a small campus in Sylmar, CA.  They do their city training 
>> in Los Angeles - including their subway!  LA had no subway when I went to 
>> GDA.
>>
>> The school is smaller than GDB and larger than GDD that's Guide Dogs of 
>> the Desert. GDA - Guide Dogs of America - started in the late 1940s by an 
>> older man with the Machinists Union. He was a worker in that union and he 
>> became visually impaired. At that time, most schools refused to take 
>> older people for their first guide dog.  So the man and his union started 
>> their own school!  they are small and cozy with lots of individualized 
>> attention from the instructors.  Alot of their training is in the city of 
>> San Fernando, and in Sylmar.
>>
>> I don't know what changes have occurred there sinse I was there in 1990. 
>> I did see one of their graduates today at a craft class but didn't really 
>> talk to her - I assist a deaf volunteer in her helping people who are 
>> learning to knit.
>>
>> HTH!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!  It's a small school and rarely comes up on the list.  I admit I 
>>> know nothing about GDA.  So if the people who have GDA guides would like 
>>> to share on list I would love to read about your experiences too.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:08 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>> I was a graduate of GDA in 1990.  I know two people here in San Diego 
>>>> who have GDA dogs and they are happy with their dogs and the school. I 
>>>> know there are some listers who have GDA dogs - hey guys, talk to 
>>>> Jessica! (grin!)
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jessica,
>>>>>
>>>>> Holy cow! You've had some insane dogs.  I agree biting is way over the 
>>>>> line in what is acceptable.   Boxers are by nature very high energy, 
>>>>> so I doubt it was just that particular one.  But biting, I absolutely 
>>>>> could not deal with.
>>>>> I hope GDA is just what you are looking for.  I don't know of anyone 
>>>>> who has gotten a dog from there.  Could you ask them to put you in 
>>>>> touch with a graduate?  That seems reasonable to me.
>>>>> Hopefully there is someone on the list who will be able to provide 
>>>>> more info.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the questions, of course, are relevant only for information. 
>>>>>> For
>>>>>> instance, I know that my school does most if not all of what you are 
>>>>>> asking
>>>>>> and does have set commands. But as for dog/cat distractions,they are
>>>>>> something that I am continually having to work on with the dog. If 
>>>>>> they get
>>>>>> serious, I may need to have them send someone out to help me. There 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> always the potential for a bad match. What policy does Guide Dogs of 
>>>>>> America
>>>>>> have on ownership? Is there a fee? Where do they get their support? 
>>>>>> Those
>>>>>> are more questions that could be of importance. Do they have their 
>>>>>> own stock
>>>>>> or do they get the dogs in other places? Not sure why GDB would be 
>>>>>> too big.
>>>>>> They have two campuses, but the class size would be similar, or are 
>>>>>> you just
>>>>>> concerned about paper pushing and the like? Just curious. I think it 
>>>>>> is good
>>>>>> to ask questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:37 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I received my first and second dogs from pilot dogs. I choose not
>>>>>> to return because when I went their the first time I had a dog that
>>>>>> continuously bit my hands and arms and was not controllable, then I
>>>>>> got a chocolate lab who developed a skin disorder, and chased our 
>>>>>> cats
>>>>>> and in working when she saw a cat or dog she'd lunge, and then stop
>>>>>> working altogether. Then I got a boxer who had horrible behavior,
>>>>>> biting, and way way to much energy so have decided a better school
>>>>>> with a better reputation would be good for me. GDA tells me they have
>>>>>> kennel cats test the dogs with cats, do intelligence disobedience,
>>>>>> more in the matching process, etc. all of which Pilot didn't do.
>>>>>> I just wanted to know the answers to those questins for general info
>>>>>> and to get others experiences. I also wanted a school that wasn't
>>>>>> across country so being near seattle, that gave me GDB, GDDI and GDA,
>>>>>> GDB is jsut to big for my liking, GDDI had a 2 year waiting list and
>>>>>> when I called GDA, Andi was so nice, and helpful it just seemed the
>>>>>> perfect place.
>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/10/10, Cindy Ray <cindyray at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Is this your first dog? If not, where have you gotten dogs before?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:24 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I'm wondering if there is any GDA graduates amongst us.
>>>>>>> If so, I have questions.
>>>>>>> You can either answer here or send me a private email, or add me to
>>>>>>> msn at rolosgirl at gmail.com
>>>>>>> 1. Did you keep a blog of your experiences.
>>>>>>> 2. Does your dog have any issues with cats?
>>>>>>> 3. Can you describe your harness, AKA how it releases the belly 
>>>>>>> strap,
>>>>>>> any reflectors, how the handle connects, etc.?
>>>>>>> 4. What did you like and dislike about the school?
>>>>>>> 5. How long did you wait to get in?
>>>>>>> 6. Did you feel your dog was a good match?
>>>>>>> 7. Any recommendations for going there?
>>>>>>> 8. Can you give me an overview of the facilities, common areas, 
>>>>>>> rooms,
>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>> 9. Can you describe to me what happens from when you get there until
>>>>>>> you get the dog?
>>>>>>> 10. Can you describe dog day to me and how they introduce the dog to
>>>>>>> you, what happens after that up until your first work out?
>>>>>>> 11. Are there any hallmarks of the program, AKA visits to specific
>>>>>>> places that always happen?
>>>>>>> 12. Was your dog well trained in all types of environments?
>>>>>>> 13. How does your dog do with food distractions?
>>>>>>> 14. How about cat/dog distractions?
>>>>>>> 15. What all commands are used.
>>>>>>> 16. How is your dog at home? Do you use a crate, tie down, both?
>>>>>>> If I think of more questions I'll post them but these are the ones i
>>>>>>> have right now.
>>>>>>> I'm doing the application process now, hoping for an April or July
>>>>>>> class. I've asked for a female yellow lab, we'll see!
>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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