[nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?
Tamara Smith-Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Sat Jan 16 21:28:43 UTC 2010
Yeah, I'll bet Landon did see something or someone that didn't sit right
with him and decided to make sure everybody knew he was on watch! Good boy!
/grin/
Daisy is my roommate's dog, a 3-legged treeing walker coonhound. She was
hit by a dumptruck when she was around a year old, rescued and put back
together by the humane society, passed around, adopted out, abused, brought
back, passed around, adopted and abused... Then ended up deciding to live
with DD, who didn't want a dog but who know organizes his entire life around
her. /smile/
Needless to say, she has issues beyond the wildest dreams of psychoanalysis.
We both work with her almost constantly to keep her calm, happy, secure,
etc., etc. We re also *very* careful to keep her away from situations where
her fear aggression could get her into trouble. She was bred to chase down
predators and deal with them if necessary, so even though she's small for
her breed, she is a whole lot of dog! With a whole lot of bark, too.
/smile/ Her baying and singing are beautiful, but they were designed to
carry across the miles to the human hunter lagging behind, listening to the
dog to know where to go and how the hunt is proceeding. She likes to tree
Mitzi under my office chair while I'm working -- and Mitzi seems happy to
get herself treed there -- so I get the "5 mile bark" right in the ear.
Ouch! /grin/
She's pretty sure she would be a great guide dog! She's been known to chase
Mitzi away from the harness and dive into it. So I have put it on her a
couple of times and had her "guide" me around in controlled circumstances.
OMG! She is so happy and proud of herself! I did take her out the front
door once, letting her take me to the end of the walk and back, and even up
the stairs onto the porch. She found that to be a little overwhelming, but
she actually did a pretty good job. /smile/ She seems to have picked it up
by watching Mitzi. Isn't that cool? I'm not quite sure she has the
temperament for the job, however. We limit her public exposure to trips in
the car, and if we have to take her out for a potty break, we warn everyone
to stay away! Which is tough. She's a beautiful dog (not as beautiful as
Mitzi, but who is?), and there's the missing leg. Awwww.
Anyway, if someone were stupid enough to intrude into her area of protection
despite that bark of hers -- which Mitzi likes to add to, given a chance --
that someone would not fare well! Daisy and Mitzi have gotten into it
enough times for me to appreciate the power of Daisy's full-scale frontal
assault. Which scared me to death the first time, until I realized that
Mitzi's ninja poodle moves are a pretty effective counter. I've also seen
how they work in tandem at play. Said intruder would be in for a very bad
time just stepping through the door. Then again, any fool who puts my dogs
in that position is then going to have to deal with me. Whatever the dogs
don't shred, I will! /grin/
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming, which I can read without
fear of being home alone with the dogs!
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:57 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?
Wow Tami! I'll bet those intruders won't want to come to your door anytime
soon! Good Girl, Mitzi!
I can understand why schools teach the dogs not to bark - you know, barking
in the office if someone comes into your cubicle - but I think it is not
unreasonable to allow a little bark to alert you to something not right. We
can't see danger where a dog can.
I do wish SEeing Eye wasn't so thorough in teaching the dogs not to bark at
all. None of my Seeing Eye dogs would bark at the door which would be
helpful to me as I don't realize there is someone at my door. I don't hear
them knock on my security screen door.
What kind of dog is Daisy? Is she a retired guide? Sounds like you are well
protected which is a good thing in this day and age where people may try to
attack a person because they are blind and they'd never be able to identify
the attacker in court.
Landon DID bark one night when I was taking him out for the last "park" of
the night. I live at a fairly quiet intersection of a dead-end street and
one that comes into a "T" intersection. Landon was looking up the street
very intently and he started to bark and growl. I didn't hear anything -
hope it wasn't a neighborhood cat or something! (grin!) He doesn't bark at
cats or animals. So, I think he saw a human slinking around the houses up
the street near my apartment building. I did not correct him!
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Guide dog or guard dog?
> Linda and Dan,
>
> Because poodles can be very guardy, I've always worked to keep that
> instinct
> quiet and to redirect it in Mitzi. But one night a couple of months ago,
> I
> walked out the back door onto the porch in our fenced back yard... And
> she
> lunged forward, nearly over the corner post, barking in a way I had never
> heard from her before! She was totally fierce! Then I heard the
> scrambling
> of footsteps just beneath her head, from the yard beside the porch!
> Intruders! And, boy, did they hightail it away and over the back fence!
>
> I was pretty impressed, really. Although I prefer she doesn't get put
> into
> a position to do that again. Still! My sweet, sweet angel is one scary
> dog
> when she wants to be! /smile/
>
> I'm just glad Daisy was in bed with her dad at the time. She would have
> more than scared the punks, and we probably would have had to make some
> unpleasant choices. Still, we never have to wonder if there's someone at
> the front door between the 2 of them. /smile/ I did have Mitzi trained
> not
> to have bark fests over knocks at the door, but we haven't gotten Daisy
> sorted out yet, so they both go nuts together. Sigh. At least I have no
> trouble finding Daisy hound to get a grip on her before I open the door.
> That dog is loud! Also, you still never know if she's going to tear into
> someone or simply knock them over trying to love on them. /smile/ She's
> getting better, with the help of neighbors who come to the door and a
> generous application of training treats!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:47 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>
> Hi Daniel,
> Sounds like Scout is a field Lab with all his energy. Scout sounds like a
> dog Seeing Eye would drop from the program! Field Labs are especially bred
> with hyper energy so they can be used for hunting. Hunters need a high
> energy dog that can continuously jump into cold water retrieving waterfowl
> all day long! This trait isn't very good in a guide dog. The schools
> will
> blend the field Lab with a conformation Lab which is very calm. With the
> blend, you get a dog that has stamina to work but who can also chill when
> you need it to.
>
> If you retire Scoout and go elsewhere for a new dog, Leader may not allow
> you to keep Scout. He is young enough to retrain with another person.
> But,
>
> if they deem him unsuitable for guide work, they MAY let you keep him as a
> pet. This can be a problem with a school that has a contract and who
> retains ownership of the dog.
>
> A couple of years ago, a friend of mine died. She had a dog from a
> California school that was around seven years old at the time of my
> friend's
>
> death. Because she didn't have in writing who she wanted her dog to go
> to,
> the school wouldn't allow us, her friends, to give the dog to someone here
> in San Diego who my friend had mentioned about retiring her dog to.
> Instead,
>
> the school took the dog back and said that the intended person had to
> apply
> for the dog just like anyone else who wanted to adopt a retired guide or
> career-change dog. So, I don't know whatever happened to the dog.
>
> If I was you, I'd try to find out your school's policy for early
> retirement
> before doing anything. When you apply to a new school, they will check
> with
>
> the old school about you and if there are any problems concerning your
> guide
>
> dog use and dog care.
>
> That's great that Scout is a good watchdog! Landon would lick an intruder
> to
>
> death! LOL! He doesn't bark at the door - something all my dogs from
> Seeing
>
> Eye won't do! I think they have their puppy raisers discourage door
> barking
>
> from the very beginning. Not a good thing for me as I do have a hearing
> problem and aren't always aware that someone's at my door - especially if
> I'm at my computer in my bedroom!
>
> Hope all works out for you. BTW, one of my friends here has a Seeing Eye
> dog named Scout and they work with the Navy!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Sweeney" <daniel.sweeney1 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>
>
>> Hello Tracy,
>> Yes, it is the same Daniel with the wild and crazy Leader Dog, Scout. I
>> never did return the little shit, much to my surprise. I had a trainer
>> out
>> last January, 09. He admitted to me that I was not ready to leave the
>> school
>> with Scout when I did. He told me that he even told my instructor this,
>> but
>> it was ignored. But that is all water under the bridge now. He did show
>> me
>
>> a
>> few ways to get control of my little ever-ready bunny dog, and it has
>> helped
>> quite a bit. The dog is still not the guide dog I imagined, nor I had
>> observed when I had some bit of sight. He still walks at a turbo pace,
>> with
>> his head to the ground most of the time. As long as I have tried to
>> "steady" him, it has been over a year and a half now, he will only comply
>> when he wants to. Other than that he is a great dog. He is a perfect
>> guard
>> dog around the house, and has foiled 2 intruders. He is totally
>> protective
>> of me, and will not leave my side when at home.
>> He will belong to me in July, and I was considering attending a different
>> school, to get a real guide dog - now that I know what to expect from a
>> guide dog. I thought of keeping Scout as our family dog, which he has
>> become
>> such a part of. He is absolutely wild when he is off leash, in the
>> backyard
>> he runs laps continually, he never tires. He has more energy than I could
>> ever imagine a dog to have. The comments from everyone I know is "THAT is
>> a
>> guide dog, you are kidding!"
>> So, that is the why the questions on retirement, ownership and the like.
>> Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
>> Daniel and Scout
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 6:31 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] question about ownership and retirement
>>
>> Hi Daniel.
>> Are you the Daniel with the wild Leader dog? How's it going?
>>
>> I have kept 2 retired dogs. The first, Amba, had to stop working
>> because
>> she got cancer. She lived only a few months after the diagnosis. I
>> could
>> have waited to get a new dog until she was gone, but I much prefer to
>> have
>> a dog in New York City, and we kept hoping the treatment she got would
>> work, so I did not wait. It did interfere somewhat with the bonding
>> process with the new dog, primarily because I was spending a lot of time
>> and energy caring for my sick dog, and spending time with her while I
>> could. But after her passing, the bond between me and my new dog got
>> stronger, and everything was fine. And, even before, we could work
>> together fine.
>>
>> I also kept Echo (who was the new dog I was just talking about). She
>> retired at age 11, and is still going strong 3 years later. I had no
>> problem bonding with my newer dog, Ben. My husband took over some of the
>> care of Echo, taking her for walks mostly, and she and Ben don't mind
>> each
>> other. They play sometimes, and steal toys from each other, but mostly
>> they ignore each other. Sometimes Echo still comes to the door when I
>> pick up the harness, but really she seems happy to take life easy and let
>> the young dude do the work.
>>
>> I think it really helps to have another person around when one has 2
>> dogs.
>> HTH.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> Hello group,
>>>
>>> I am back on the list again because I missed all of everyone's helpful
>>> comments and suggestions in the past. I have a question. What is the
>>> earliest someone has retired their guide which they received from a
>>> school?
>>> Upon retirement, did you keep that dog while returning to either to the
>>> same
>>> school or a different school to obtain another guide? And finally, was
>>> their
>>> any complications at home due to the fact that the new guide was
>>> replacing
>>> the previous guide when it came to developing a solid bond?
>>>
>>> Whew! I know it is a lot to ponder, but I figured since the conversation
>>> seemed to be around ownership issues, at least partly, I figured it
>>> would
>>> be
>>> a good time to ask.
>>>
>>> Daniel.
>>>
>>
>>
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