[nagdu] public perceptions was Guide Dogs of America

Bob Hicks bob at seeinghandassociation.com
Tue Jan 19 16:27:44 UTC 2010


Amen!

Best regards,

Bob Hicks
Access Technology Specialist
Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
304-232-4810
<bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] public perceptions was Guide Dogs of America


> It just goes to show you that the public hasn't a clue about blind people 
> or guide dogs. One of the blessings of owner training is that you will 
> never get a phone call about the fact someone didn't like the way you 
> handled your dog in some situation or another.   I have no clue why people 
> can't say things directly to the blind handler, but for some reason it 
> seems to be the trend to just call the school and tattle.
>
> I probably really confuse people.  LOL  sometimes I take Monty, sometimes 
> I use my cane and New Year's Eve I just winged it at our friend's home.
>
> Oh well, I live in a small gossipy town.  It's probably keeping them all 
> entertained! Just doin' my part, you know!
>
> Julie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Hicks" <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>
>
>> Hi Julie and list.  I am sort of a rookie as this group goes and I am 
>> only using my second dog guide, but I almost never used a dog guide at 
>> all because of a well meaning and totally uninformed Lion back in 1979. 
>> After being home from training at Leader, I was in Morgantown WV the 
>> first week of the fall semester to pick up an Opticon(ancient history 
>> uh!) and the streets were very crowded.  We went to lunch at a burger 
>> place downtown and after lunch we were returning to our vehicle. 
>> Although people were polite, it was very difficult working Nicholas 
>> because people were shoulder to shoulder and 3 or 4 abreast going both 
>> directions.  Leader Dogs had told us that the ultimate decision to work 
>> our guides under stressful situations was entirely up to us.  Nicholas 
>> was fine, but I was stressed out.  In the Burger place, a lady had 
>> introduced herself as  a Lion from a chapter near my home town and I 
>> never gave it another thought. Again, on the way back to the van, I 
>> decided to heal Nicholas and go sited guide for a short distance.
>>
>> About a month later, I get a visit from a friend who was a member of the 
>> local Lions club.  He told me that he wasn't here to upset me, but he 
>> knew me  and he knew I would be upset.  It was reported to Leader Dogs 
>> that I had received a dog who couldn't handle crowds.  Nothing was 
>> further from the truth.  Nicholas never made a mistake of any consequence 
>> and worked perfectly for 10 years, but I never forgot that the Lions and 
>> who knew who else was watching us work and felt that they knew enough to 
>> report that I or Nicholas did not know what we were doing.  I never, 
>> never forgot this slight.  This factored in my decision not to get a 
>> replacement dog for years.  After the discussion with my friend, I 
>> briefly considered sending Nicholas, whom I had already come to love, 
>> back to Leader.  I called Leader and they told me not to worry about it.
>>
>> I have been very fortunate to have exceptional dogs from Leader and 
>> Pilot.I received exceptional support and treatment at both facilities.  I 
>> know and read about each of us experiencing different treatment at the 
>> various facilities, but I have received exceptional treatment and dogs at 
>> both of my stops along this journey.
>>
>> It is neat to read about the different schools and I wonder where I will 
>> go when Amos retires.  Thanks for listening to my story.  take care
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Bob Hicks
>> Access Technology Specialist
>> Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
>> 304-232-4810
>> <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>
>>
>>> Yes, that does answer my question.  I appreciate your sharing.  It was 
>>> very informative.  Most people go to one program and stick with it for 
>>> successor dogs.  It's really helpful to hear from someone who has first 
>>> hand experience with different programs.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>> I had gone to another school - GDF -  before settling on The Seeing 
>>>> Eye. I always wanted to go to TSE from the start but at that time they 
>>>> didn't accept students with some usable vision.  Then they changed that 
>>>> policy sometime in the 1980s.  I was never comfortable with a contract 
>>>> which GDF had.  That's why I didn't return there when I was finally 
>>>> able to go to TSE. Then my first dog from Seeing Eye wasn't really 
>>>> suited for the work - something TSE watches out for now. then I moved 
>>>> to California.
>>>>
>>>> When my TSE dog had to have an early retirement, I applied to the three 
>>>> CA schools.  GDB turned me down because they listened to untrue things 
>>>> about me and my dog handling.  At that time TSE was using some 
>>>> corrections no longer used by them and corrections that the CA schools 
>>>> didn't like - and some local guide dog users didn't like either.  I was 
>>>> accepted by GDA and GDD. GDA offered me a class sooner than GDD so I 
>>>> went there.
>>>>
>>>> I have to admit that in 1990, I had NEVER flown cross country alone - 
>>>> just little short flights from Boston to either Long Island or New 
>>>> Jersey.  I was afraid to do it alone then.
>>>>
>>>> After my GDA dog retired, I gave her to a friend who moved to another 
>>>> state. My dog was for her husband as she had a GDA dog herself.  then 
>>>> they moved back to San Diego.  Meanwhile, she gave up her GDA dog and 
>>>> kept the harness. She used the harness on my retired dog so she could 
>>>> take the dog with her on the bus.  The "busy-bodies" who sucessfully 
>>>> got me denied at GDB, came to life again and told GDA  and GDB that I 
>>>> gave this woman my retired guide so she could then use the dog.  And 
>>>> further, I gave her a harness to do this! I gave the dog to her husband 
>>>> and I sent my harness back to the school by mail after I retired the 
>>>> dog!
>>>>
>>>> The Director Of Training of GDA, upon hearing this story, came to SD 
>>>> unannounced to our blind center where we were having craft class.  He 
>>>> took both me and the woman outside to chat about this.  He saw the GDA 
>>>> harness she was using - it was the new style one and not the same kind 
>>>> as I had been issued.  After our chat, he seemeed to be satisfied that 
>>>> I said I had nothing to do with the woman's actions, took the harness 
>>>> back and left.
>>>>
>>>> A year later, after I healed from an injury that forced me to send my 
>>>> Eye Dog Fooundation dog back, I re-applied to GDA and GDB as I was not 
>>>> happy with the training at EDF.  I was turned down by both citing as 
>>>> the reason that I had given this woman my retired dog for her to use 
>>>> and that I gave her a harness to do this!  They said I VIOLATED the 
>>>> contract!  I had no control over what someone else did with my retired 
>>>> dog!!  So, as I found, you are bound by the contract even if you no 
>>>> longer have the dog!  You're supposed to euthanise the dog in order to 
>>>> ensure that the contract won't be violated???!! This is why I will 
>>>> NEVER go to a school with a contract!
>>>>
>>>> Shortley after this fiasco, the woman decided that she could no longer 
>>>> keep the dog and the dog was returned to me.  I gave her to my 
>>>> sister-in-law and that's where the dog lived out the rest of her life.
>>>>
>>>> It was an understatement to say I was VERY upset by this turn of 
>>>> events. This all did come back to "bite me". I was so upset at the 
>>>> people involved that I kept it secret that I decided to reapply at TSE. 
>>>> I decided that I had no reason to be afraid to fly cross country alone! 
>>>> I decided to go back to SEeing Eye, was accepted and flew on my own 
>>>> without any problem and I have since flown back and forth many times 
>>>> fear-free! I also had to keep it a secret that I was even reapplying 
>>>> for a new dog at Seeing Eye. The cat was let out of the bag when I left 
>>>> for class and everyone wondered where I was!  I swore my sister to 
>>>> secrecy and she could tell people where I was after I left! Further, I 
>>>> told TSE about what happened and I left them a list of names of the 
>>>> troublemakers and this list still resides in my TSE records! When they 
>>>> tried to cause me more trouble, TSE blew them off!
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing about all this is that the people at both GDA and 
>>>> GDB KNOW what kind of handler I am as I see them at events from time to 
>>>> time and they've seen me handle my dogs!  I have no respect for 
>>>> organizations that pay more attention to malicious rumorsmongering by a 
>>>> couple of disgruntled people who were really jealous of me for 
>>>> whatever. The ringleader of this has moved away and this nonsense has 
>>>> stopped. this same small group has tried their crap on another local 
>>>> dog user as well but failed to do any harm to her.  My question is: Why 
>>>> were these people more credible than I was? I never got that answer, 
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly enough, I will still see these trainers from GDA and GDB 
>>>> at guide dog or blindness conventionns and they are very cordial 
>>>> towards me! (grin!)  I am cordial with them  However, I never received 
>>>> an apology! That's OK, I will NEVER apply to these schools again and I 
>>>> will stay with TSE as long as I can still use guide dogs!  They have 
>>>> ALWAYS shown respect and integrity towards me. There is respect both 
>>>> ways and I didn't have this with the California schools.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't meant to bash any school.  This is my own experiences with 
>>>> them. These two schools do put out good dogs and people are very happy 
>>>> with them - I have no problem with that.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this answers your question, Julie! (grin!)
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:48 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!  I read their survey info from GDUI.  According to that they 
>>>>> place about 50 dogs per year and the class limit is 10 students.  They 
>>>>> also state that they offer their services in the entire U.S. and 
>>>>> Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't mind, what made you decide to get your successor dogs 
>>>>> from TSE?
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:33 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>> I've only seen GDA dogs here in California although, I'm sure, they 
>>>>>> have graduates in other states. Yes, they are a small school. they 
>>>>>> train about 6-12 students on class.  I don't know how many classes 
>>>>>> they have per year.They have a small campus in Sylmar, CA.  They do 
>>>>>> their city training in Los Angeles - including their subway!  LA had 
>>>>>> no subway when I went to GDA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The school is smaller than GDB and larger than GDD that's Guide Dogs 
>>>>>> of the Desert. GDA - Guide Dogs of America - started in the late 
>>>>>> 1940s by an older man with the Machinists Union. He was a worker in 
>>>>>> that union and he became visually impaired. At that time, most 
>>>>>> schools refused to take older people for their first guide dog.  So 
>>>>>> the man and his union started their own school!  they are small and 
>>>>>> cozy with lots of individualized attention from the instructors. 
>>>>>> Alot of their training is in the city of San Fernando, and in Sylmar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what changes have occurred there sinse I was there in 
>>>>>> 1990. I did see one of their graduates today at a craft class but 
>>>>>> didn't really talk to her - I assist a deaf volunteer in her helping 
>>>>>> people who are learning to knit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:15 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!  It's a small school and rarely comes up on the list.  I 
>>>>>>> admit I know nothing about GDA.  So if the people who have GDA 
>>>>>>> guides would like to share on list I would love to read about your 
>>>>>>> experiences too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:08 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>> I was a graduate of GDA in 1990.  I know two people here in San 
>>>>>>>> Diego who have GDA dogs and they are happy with their dogs and the 
>>>>>>>> school. I know there are some listers who have GDA dogs - hey guys, 
>>>>>>>> talk to Jessica! (grin!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:58 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jessica,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Holy cow! You've had some insane dogs.  I agree biting is way over 
>>>>>>>>> the line in what is acceptable.   Boxers are by nature very high 
>>>>>>>>> energy, so I doubt it was just that particular one.  But biting, I 
>>>>>>>>> absolutely could not deal with.
>>>>>>>>> I hope GDA is just what you are looking for.  I don't know of 
>>>>>>>>> anyone who has gotten a dog from there.  Could you ask them to put 
>>>>>>>>> you in touch with a graduate?  That seems reasonable to me.
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully there is someone on the list who will be able to provide 
>>>>>>>>> more info.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some of the questions, of course, are relevant only for 
>>>>>>>>>> information. For
>>>>>>>>>> instance, I know that my school does most if not all of what you 
>>>>>>>>>> are asking
>>>>>>>>>> and does have set commands. But as for dog/cat distractions,they 
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> something that I am continually having to work on with the dog. 
>>>>>>>>>> If they get
>>>>>>>>>> serious, I may need to have them send someone out to help me. 
>>>>>>>>>> There is
>>>>>>>>>> always the potential for a bad match. What policy does Guide Dogs 
>>>>>>>>>> of America
>>>>>>>>>> have on ownership? Is there a fee? Where do they get their 
>>>>>>>>>> support? Those
>>>>>>>>>> are more questions that could be of importance. Do they have 
>>>>>>>>>> their own stock
>>>>>>>>>> or do they get the dogs in other places? Not sure why GDB would 
>>>>>>>>>> be too big.
>>>>>>>>>> They have two campuses, but the class size would be similar, or 
>>>>>>>>>> are you just
>>>>>>>>>> concerned about paper pushing and the like? Just curious. I think 
>>>>>>>>>> it is good
>>>>>>>>>> to ask questions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I received my first and second dogs from pilot dogs. I choose 
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> to return because when I went their the first time I had a dog 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> continuously bit my hands and arms and was not controllable, then 
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> got a chocolate lab who developed a skin disorder, and chased our 
>>>>>>>>>> cats
>>>>>>>>>> and in working when she saw a cat or dog she'd lunge, and then 
>>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>>> working altogether. Then I got a boxer who had horrible behavior,
>>>>>>>>>> biting, and way way to much energy so have decided a better 
>>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>> with a better reputation would be good for me. GDA tells me they 
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> kennel cats test the dogs with cats, do intelligence 
>>>>>>>>>> disobedience,
>>>>>>>>>> more in the matching process, etc. all of which Pilot didn't do.
>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to know the answers to those questins for general 
>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>> and to get others experiences. I also wanted a school that wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> across country so being near seattle, that gave me GDB, GDDI and 
>>>>>>>>>> GDA,
>>>>>>>>>> GDB is jsut to big for my liking, GDDI had a 2 year waiting list 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> when I called GDA, Andi was so nice, and helpful it just seemed 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> perfect place.
>>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/10/10, Cindy Ray <cindyray at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this your first dog? If not, where have you gotten dogs 
>>>>>>>>>>> before?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if there is any GDA graduates amongst us.
>>>>>>>>>>> If so, I have questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> You can either answer here or send me a private email, or add me 
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> msn at rolosgirl at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Did you keep a blog of your experiences.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does your dog have any issues with cats?
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Can you describe your harness, AKA how it releases the belly 
>>>>>>>>>>> strap,
>>>>>>>>>>> any reflectors, how the handle connects, etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What did you like and dislike about the school?
>>>>>>>>>>> 5. How long did you wait to get in?
>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Did you feel your dog was a good match?
>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Any recommendations for going there?
>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Can you give me an overview of the facilities, common areas, 
>>>>>>>>>>> rooms,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Can you describe to me what happens from when you get there 
>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>>> you get the dog?
>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Can you describe dog day to me and how they introduce the 
>>>>>>>>>>> dog to
>>>>>>>>>>> you, what happens after that up until your first work out?
>>>>>>>>>>> 11. Are there any hallmarks of the program, AKA visits to 
>>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>>> places that always happen?
>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Was your dog well trained in all types of environments?
>>>>>>>>>>> 13. How does your dog do with food distractions?
>>>>>>>>>>> 14. How about cat/dog distractions?
>>>>>>>>>>> 15. What all commands are used.
>>>>>>>>>>> 16. How is your dog at home? Do you use a crate, tie down, both?
>>>>>>>>>>> If I think of more questions I'll post them but these are the 
>>>>>>>>>>> ones i
>>>>>>>>>>> have right now.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm doing the application process now, hoping for an April or 
>>>>>>>>>>> July
>>>>>>>>>>> class. I've asked for a female yellow lab, we'll see!
>>>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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