[nagdu] public perceptions was Guide Dogs of America
Bob Hicks
bob at seeinghandassociation.com
Tue Jan 19 16:27:44 UTC 2010
Amen!
Best regards,
Bob Hicks
Access Technology Specialist
Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
304-232-4810
<bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] public perceptions was Guide Dogs of America
> It just goes to show you that the public hasn't a clue about blind people
> or guide dogs. One of the blessings of owner training is that you will
> never get a phone call about the fact someone didn't like the way you
> handled your dog in some situation or another. I have no clue why people
> can't say things directly to the blind handler, but for some reason it
> seems to be the trend to just call the school and tattle.
>
> I probably really confuse people. LOL sometimes I take Monty, sometimes
> I use my cane and New Year's Eve I just winged it at our friend's home.
>
> Oh well, I live in a small gossipy town. It's probably keeping them all
> entertained! Just doin' my part, you know!
>
> Julie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Hicks" <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>
>
>> Hi Julie and list. I am sort of a rookie as this group goes and I am
>> only using my second dog guide, but I almost never used a dog guide at
>> all because of a well meaning and totally uninformed Lion back in 1979.
>> After being home from training at Leader, I was in Morgantown WV the
>> first week of the fall semester to pick up an Opticon(ancient history
>> uh!) and the streets were very crowded. We went to lunch at a burger
>> place downtown and after lunch we were returning to our vehicle.
>> Although people were polite, it was very difficult working Nicholas
>> because people were shoulder to shoulder and 3 or 4 abreast going both
>> directions. Leader Dogs had told us that the ultimate decision to work
>> our guides under stressful situations was entirely up to us. Nicholas
>> was fine, but I was stressed out. In the Burger place, a lady had
>> introduced herself as a Lion from a chapter near my home town and I
>> never gave it another thought. Again, on the way back to the van, I
>> decided to heal Nicholas and go sited guide for a short distance.
>>
>> About a month later, I get a visit from a friend who was a member of the
>> local Lions club. He told me that he wasn't here to upset me, but he
>> knew me and he knew I would be upset. It was reported to Leader Dogs
>> that I had received a dog who couldn't handle crowds. Nothing was
>> further from the truth. Nicholas never made a mistake of any consequence
>> and worked perfectly for 10 years, but I never forgot that the Lions and
>> who knew who else was watching us work and felt that they knew enough to
>> report that I or Nicholas did not know what we were doing. I never,
>> never forgot this slight. This factored in my decision not to get a
>> replacement dog for years. After the discussion with my friend, I
>> briefly considered sending Nicholas, whom I had already come to love,
>> back to Leader. I called Leader and they told me not to worry about it.
>>
>> I have been very fortunate to have exceptional dogs from Leader and
>> Pilot.I received exceptional support and treatment at both facilities. I
>> know and read about each of us experiencing different treatment at the
>> various facilities, but I have received exceptional treatment and dogs at
>> both of my stops along this journey.
>>
>> It is neat to read about the different schools and I wonder where I will
>> go when Amos retires. Thanks for listening to my story. take care
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Bob Hicks
>> Access Technology Specialist
>> Seeing Hand Association, Inc.
>> 304-232-4810
>> <bob at seeinghandassociation.com>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>
>>
>>> Yes, that does answer my question. I appreciate your sharing. It was
>>> very informative. Most people go to one program and stick with it for
>>> successor dogs. It's really helpful to hear from someone who has first
>>> hand experience with different programs.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>> I had gone to another school - GDF - before settling on The Seeing
>>>> Eye. I always wanted to go to TSE from the start but at that time they
>>>> didn't accept students with some usable vision. Then they changed that
>>>> policy sometime in the 1980s. I was never comfortable with a contract
>>>> which GDF had. That's why I didn't return there when I was finally
>>>> able to go to TSE. Then my first dog from Seeing Eye wasn't really
>>>> suited for the work - something TSE watches out for now. then I moved
>>>> to California.
>>>>
>>>> When my TSE dog had to have an early retirement, I applied to the three
>>>> CA schools. GDB turned me down because they listened to untrue things
>>>> about me and my dog handling. At that time TSE was using some
>>>> corrections no longer used by them and corrections that the CA schools
>>>> didn't like - and some local guide dog users didn't like either. I was
>>>> accepted by GDA and GDD. GDA offered me a class sooner than GDD so I
>>>> went there.
>>>>
>>>> I have to admit that in 1990, I had NEVER flown cross country alone -
>>>> just little short flights from Boston to either Long Island or New
>>>> Jersey. I was afraid to do it alone then.
>>>>
>>>> After my GDA dog retired, I gave her to a friend who moved to another
>>>> state. My dog was for her husband as she had a GDA dog herself. then
>>>> they moved back to San Diego. Meanwhile, she gave up her GDA dog and
>>>> kept the harness. She used the harness on my retired dog so she could
>>>> take the dog with her on the bus. The "busy-bodies" who sucessfully
>>>> got me denied at GDB, came to life again and told GDA and GDB that I
>>>> gave this woman my retired guide so she could then use the dog. And
>>>> further, I gave her a harness to do this! I gave the dog to her husband
>>>> and I sent my harness back to the school by mail after I retired the
>>>> dog!
>>>>
>>>> The Director Of Training of GDA, upon hearing this story, came to SD
>>>> unannounced to our blind center where we were having craft class. He
>>>> took both me and the woman outside to chat about this. He saw the GDA
>>>> harness she was using - it was the new style one and not the same kind
>>>> as I had been issued. After our chat, he seemeed to be satisfied that
>>>> I said I had nothing to do with the woman's actions, took the harness
>>>> back and left.
>>>>
>>>> A year later, after I healed from an injury that forced me to send my
>>>> Eye Dog Fooundation dog back, I re-applied to GDA and GDB as I was not
>>>> happy with the training at EDF. I was turned down by both citing as
>>>> the reason that I had given this woman my retired dog for her to use
>>>> and that I gave her a harness to do this! They said I VIOLATED the
>>>> contract! I had no control over what someone else did with my retired
>>>> dog!! So, as I found, you are bound by the contract even if you no
>>>> longer have the dog! You're supposed to euthanise the dog in order to
>>>> ensure that the contract won't be violated???!! This is why I will
>>>> NEVER go to a school with a contract!
>>>>
>>>> Shortley after this fiasco, the woman decided that she could no longer
>>>> keep the dog and the dog was returned to me. I gave her to my
>>>> sister-in-law and that's where the dog lived out the rest of her life.
>>>>
>>>> It was an understatement to say I was VERY upset by this turn of
>>>> events. This all did come back to "bite me". I was so upset at the
>>>> people involved that I kept it secret that I decided to reapply at TSE.
>>>> I decided that I had no reason to be afraid to fly cross country alone!
>>>> I decided to go back to SEeing Eye, was accepted and flew on my own
>>>> without any problem and I have since flown back and forth many times
>>>> fear-free! I also had to keep it a secret that I was even reapplying
>>>> for a new dog at Seeing Eye. The cat was let out of the bag when I left
>>>> for class and everyone wondered where I was! I swore my sister to
>>>> secrecy and she could tell people where I was after I left! Further, I
>>>> told TSE about what happened and I left them a list of names of the
>>>> troublemakers and this list still resides in my TSE records! When they
>>>> tried to cause me more trouble, TSE blew them off!
>>>>
>>>> The interesting thing about all this is that the people at both GDA and
>>>> GDB KNOW what kind of handler I am as I see them at events from time to
>>>> time and they've seen me handle my dogs! I have no respect for
>>>> organizations that pay more attention to malicious rumorsmongering by a
>>>> couple of disgruntled people who were really jealous of me for
>>>> whatever. The ringleader of this has moved away and this nonsense has
>>>> stopped. this same small group has tried their crap on another local
>>>> dog user as well but failed to do any harm to her. My question is: Why
>>>> were these people more credible than I was? I never got that answer,
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly enough, I will still see these trainers from GDA and GDB
>>>> at guide dog or blindness conventionns and they are very cordial
>>>> towards me! (grin!) I am cordial with them However, I never received
>>>> an apology! That's OK, I will NEVER apply to these schools again and I
>>>> will stay with TSE as long as I can still use guide dogs! They have
>>>> ALWAYS shown respect and integrity towards me. There is respect both
>>>> ways and I didn't have this with the California schools.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't meant to bash any school. This is my own experiences with
>>>> them. These two schools do put out good dogs and people are very happy
>>>> with them - I have no problem with that.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this answers your question, Julie! (grin!)
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:48 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks! I read their survey info from GDUI. According to that they
>>>>> place about 50 dogs per year and the class limit is 10 students. They
>>>>> also state that they offer their services in the entire U.S. and
>>>>> Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't mind, what made you decide to get your successor dogs
>>>>> from TSE?
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:33 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>> I've only seen GDA dogs here in California although, I'm sure, they
>>>>>> have graduates in other states. Yes, they are a small school. they
>>>>>> train about 6-12 students on class. I don't know how many classes
>>>>>> they have per year.They have a small campus in Sylmar, CA. They do
>>>>>> their city training in Los Angeles - including their subway! LA had
>>>>>> no subway when I went to GDA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The school is smaller than GDB and larger than GDD that's Guide Dogs
>>>>>> of the Desert. GDA - Guide Dogs of America - started in the late
>>>>>> 1940s by an older man with the Machinists Union. He was a worker in
>>>>>> that union and he became visually impaired. At that time, most
>>>>>> schools refused to take older people for their first guide dog. So
>>>>>> the man and his union started their own school! they are small and
>>>>>> cozy with lots of individualized attention from the instructors.
>>>>>> Alot of their training is in the city of San Fernando, and in Sylmar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what changes have occurred there sinse I was there in
>>>>>> 1990. I did see one of their graduates today at a craft class but
>>>>>> didn't really talk to her - I assist a deaf volunteer in her helping
>>>>>> people who are learning to knit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:15 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks! It's a small school and rarely comes up on the list. I
>>>>>>> admit I know nothing about GDA. So if the people who have GDA
>>>>>>> guides would like to share on list I would love to read about your
>>>>>>> experiences too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:08 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>> I was a graduate of GDA in 1990. I know two people here in San
>>>>>>>> Diego who have GDA dogs and they are happy with their dogs and the
>>>>>>>> school. I know there are some listers who have GDA dogs - hey guys,
>>>>>>>> talk to Jessica! (grin!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:58 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jessica,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Holy cow! You've had some insane dogs. I agree biting is way over
>>>>>>>>> the line in what is acceptable. Boxers are by nature very high
>>>>>>>>> energy, so I doubt it was just that particular one. But biting, I
>>>>>>>>> absolutely could not deal with.
>>>>>>>>> I hope GDA is just what you are looking for. I don't know of
>>>>>>>>> anyone who has gotten a dog from there. Could you ask them to put
>>>>>>>>> you in touch with a graduate? That seems reasonable to me.
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully there is someone on the list who will be able to provide
>>>>>>>>> more info.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some of the questions, of course, are relevant only for
>>>>>>>>>> information. For
>>>>>>>>>> instance, I know that my school does most if not all of what you
>>>>>>>>>> are asking
>>>>>>>>>> and does have set commands. But as for dog/cat distractions,they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> something that I am continually having to work on with the dog.
>>>>>>>>>> If they get
>>>>>>>>>> serious, I may need to have them send someone out to help me.
>>>>>>>>>> There is
>>>>>>>>>> always the potential for a bad match. What policy does Guide Dogs
>>>>>>>>>> of America
>>>>>>>>>> have on ownership? Is there a fee? Where do they get their
>>>>>>>>>> support? Those
>>>>>>>>>> are more questions that could be of importance. Do they have
>>>>>>>>>> their own stock
>>>>>>>>>> or do they get the dogs in other places? Not sure why GDB would
>>>>>>>>>> be too big.
>>>>>>>>>> They have two campuses, but the class size would be similar, or
>>>>>>>>>> are you just
>>>>>>>>>> concerned about paper pushing and the like? Just curious. I think
>>>>>>>>>> it is good
>>>>>>>>>> to ask questions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I received my first and second dogs from pilot dogs. I choose
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> to return because when I went their the first time I had a dog
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> continuously bit my hands and arms and was not controllable, then
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> got a chocolate lab who developed a skin disorder, and chased our
>>>>>>>>>> cats
>>>>>>>>>> and in working when she saw a cat or dog she'd lunge, and then
>>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>>> working altogether. Then I got a boxer who had horrible behavior,
>>>>>>>>>> biting, and way way to much energy so have decided a better
>>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>> with a better reputation would be good for me. GDA tells me they
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> kennel cats test the dogs with cats, do intelligence
>>>>>>>>>> disobedience,
>>>>>>>>>> more in the matching process, etc. all of which Pilot didn't do.
>>>>>>>>>> I just wanted to know the answers to those questins for general
>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>> and to get others experiences. I also wanted a school that wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> across country so being near seattle, that gave me GDB, GDDI and
>>>>>>>>>> GDA,
>>>>>>>>>> GDB is jsut to big for my liking, GDDI had a 2 year waiting list
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> when I called GDA, Andi was so nice, and helpful it just seemed
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> perfect place.
>>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/10/10, Cindy Ray <cindyray at qwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this your first dog? If not, where have you gotten dogs
>>>>>>>>>>> before?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs of America
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if there is any GDA graduates amongst us.
>>>>>>>>>>> If so, I have questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> You can either answer here or send me a private email, or add me
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> msn at rolosgirl at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Did you keep a blog of your experiences.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does your dog have any issues with cats?
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Can you describe your harness, AKA how it releases the belly
>>>>>>>>>>> strap,
>>>>>>>>>>> any reflectors, how the handle connects, etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What did you like and dislike about the school?
>>>>>>>>>>> 5. How long did you wait to get in?
>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Did you feel your dog was a good match?
>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Any recommendations for going there?
>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Can you give me an overview of the facilities, common areas,
>>>>>>>>>>> rooms,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Can you describe to me what happens from when you get there
>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>>> you get the dog?
>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Can you describe dog day to me and how they introduce the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog to
>>>>>>>>>>> you, what happens after that up until your first work out?
>>>>>>>>>>> 11. Are there any hallmarks of the program, AKA visits to
>>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>>> places that always happen?
>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Was your dog well trained in all types of environments?
>>>>>>>>>>> 13. How does your dog do with food distractions?
>>>>>>>>>>> 14. How about cat/dog distractions?
>>>>>>>>>>> 15. What all commands are used.
>>>>>>>>>>> 16. How is your dog at home? Do you use a crate, tie down, both?
>>>>>>>>>>> If I think of more questions I'll post them but these are the
>>>>>>>>>>> ones i
>>>>>>>>>>> have right now.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm doing the application process now, hoping for an April or
>>>>>>>>>>> July
>>>>>>>>>>> class. I've asked for a female yellow lab, we'll see!
>>>>>>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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