[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Guide dogs and airport security
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Mon Jul 26 15:21:02 UTC 2010
Tami,
You've now got George Carlin's skit on the English language and
political correctness in my head. So your post did serve a useful
purpose. Thank you!
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:08 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
Huh. I'm all of 5'5" with a 50 lb poodle and still have a heck of a time
with that leg room thing. Then again, the amount of leg on a 50 lb
poodle
is quite a bit, and it's mostly long bone. Also while the hair curls,
the
actual poodle does not, at least never for long. Then I start having
muscle
spasms in my back from sitting in the air line seat, while bits of her
keep
popping out at random... /lol/ I'm thinking that before I decide to
fly
somewhere again, I'm going to make darn sure I can spring for first
class to
avoid my own muscle spams while conveniently having more room for my
poodle
to be comfortable on a long flight. We'll see...
When the train or bus doesn't have Honored Citizen seating avilable
(generally not because of the number of Honored Citizens sitting in it),
I
just stand and put my dog between my legs or in front of me because it's
easier in the long run. She is most definitely *not* put together like
a
lab! /smile/
I've also realized that, as she has passed the miraculous 4-year mark
and
full psychosocial maturity -- or close enough -- I don't have to put up
with
as much, er, stuff for her sake as I used to, since she's so sensitive
to my
moods. Now that I'm sure her trianing is set and her temperament is
stable,
I'm ready to ride the bus looking for trouble of the kind I've had to
let
pass for a couple of years now ... /lol/ Which I won't *actually* do,
of
course. However, I do plan to be much more assertive about the Honored
Citizen seating when it is full of people who are not Honored like me!
/grin/
BTW, is it just me, or is that Honored Citizen label they use in transit
around here actually kinda insulting to our intelligence? I mean, yay
for
the hideous degree of political correctness, but are you assuming I'm
going
to feel better about myself because you give me a card that says I am an
Honored Citizen? Do you think anyone will else will consider me more
honored?
Okay, that last paragraph had nothing useful to do with anything, it's
just
one of those things that I think is funny for being so ridiculous, while
it
still manages to rub me the wrong way.
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
Yet still they insist that this is the regulation. Where are they
getting
this from? do the airlines not know the laws and regs they are asking
their
attendants' to work from? now what a difference 10 pounds and 1 inch
make. I
myself am 6 2 and my dog is 90 pounds and the bulk head suits us just
fine.
But like I said to Robert, I would gladly go first class anywhere.
Thanks.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 4:39 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
Albert,
When I flew to Dallas for convention, the agent didn't even give me
the
choice as to where I would sit, automatically placing me in the bulkhead
seat. Depending upon the aircraft, bulkhead seating is not always the
best
for me, as there is sometimes a wall between First-Class and Coach. In
such
instances, it is a challenge to accommodate a 100 lbs. dog and a 6'3"
person! when I asked for a different seat, I was told it was the FTA
regulations that I sit in the bulkhead! When they began to argue with
me, I
advised them who I was by title and asserted I knew a little more about
FTA
regulations as they pertain to disability than they did. I ended up
getting
an apology from the pilot!
Fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
> That just begs the question of where are they getting this impression
that
> it is better for the dog? I myself prefer bulk head an would always
ask
> for
> it. i, however would much prefer first class as well Robert.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Stigile
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Hello,
> I always check in on line.
> When traveling to Dallas, I got to the airport, checked my bags,
> and went to the gate.
> As we were boarding, the gate agent said, hold on a minute, we
> are changing your seat so the dog will be more comfortable.
> I said to her, unless you are going to put me in first class, I
> do not need my seat changed thank you.
> So she left it alone, but just the fact, that she thought it was
> necessary without even asking me, is frustrating.
> Have a great day.
>
>
> Robert Stigile
> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
> Skype: robertstigile1
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:53:37 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> One of the best ways I have found to avoid seat changes is to
> check in on line before you get to the airport. Generally, I do
> not notify the airline that I am traveling with a Seeing Eye dog
> unless I am flying out of the country or to Hawaii. This helps
> to
> avoid arguments with reservationists as well.
>
> Sometimes, depending on the type of plane, I *want to sit in
> the bulkhead though so I will exercise my rights as a service dog
> handler and request special seating accommodations (must be done
> at least 24 hours in advance) as the bulkhead is usually blocked.
> There are some planes that do offer more room for the dogs in the
> bulkhead. Most of the time, however, I travel on the smaller
> jets, 2 seats on one side and one seat on the other side. There
> is very little room in the bulk head on these planes and lots of
> room under the two-seat side.
>
> When I arrive at the gate, I wait close to boarding time and then
> walk up and notify the attendant that I wish to pre-board. I
> try
> to wait till it's really busy so the attendant won't have time to
> focus on the dog. if, at any time the attendant asks to see my
> ticket, I simply hand it over and say that I do not want my seat
> changed. This stops the attendant from changing my seat without
> my knowledge and allows me to have a dialogue about my rights if
> need be. If an attendant persists, I simply say that I am not
> required to sit in the bulkhead and I'd be happy to wait while
> he/she checks with the Complaint Resolution Officer (CRO). This
> strategy would probably work at the check-in counter too.
>
> Best,
>
> Ginger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Robert Stigile
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:00 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users; nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Hello All,
> I have been following this thread since I returned home from both
> the convention and a vacation.
> I traveled to Dallas, then from Dallas to Vancouver Canada, then
> I took a shuttle bus from Vancouver across the United States
> Border, which I also had to go through a metal detector, and then
> I finally made my way home from Seattle back to Burbank
> California.
> In all of my travels, over the last two and a half weeks, every
> time I went through a metal detector, whether it be at the
> airport, the Docks for the ship, customs to come back into the
> states, I came across only one place where I had a question about
> my dog going through the screening with her gear on.
> I was at the Seattle airport, going through the detector, which I
> set all of my bags on the conveyer belt, and slowly approached
> the place where one goes through the metal detector.
> I made my dog sit, as I normally do, started through and the
> screener said, you have to take the dogs harness and collar off
> of her.
> I said no, I do not need to do that, I will not do that, and if
> you have a problem with it, I will ask you to call a supervisor.
> She said, we will have to pat your dog down when she comes
> through the screener, which I said yes, you are right, and
> proceded through.
> This was the first time, I had this issue, and I expect it to be
> the last.
> On another note, I am wondering, if anyone has a problem like I
> seem to have, with regards to the seat I sit in.
> When I book my airline ticket, I then choose the seat that I will
> sit in.
> I do not choose, nor do I want to be put in bulk head seating.
> I actually prefer about the middle of the plane, for many
> reasons.
> When I get to the airport, I check in and almost every time, they
> will try to move me to bulk head without telling me.
> The airlines seem to think, that they know best, where I should
> sit, and many have gone as far as telling me that the faa rules
> state that anyone with a service animal must sit in bulkhead
> seating.
> I have told them, that when they find that rule to come back and
> read it to me.
> Usually, they will come back after a while, and say you can sit
> here.
> I knew that in the first place.
> So, do any of you have this issue, do any of you care whether you
> sit in bulk head or in other seats.
> I am curious to hear from people on this list, who travel a lot,
> what is your preference, and if it is not bulk head, how do you
> handle this issue or does it come up with you.
> Thank you for reading.
>
>
> Robert Stigile
> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
> Skype: robertstigile1
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:29:01
> -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Steve,
>
> I believe Dawn Jenkins is the President of the Staunton chapter
> of the NFB in Virginia - perhaps someone can give her a call.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:15 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Could someone i.e. list moderator and list owner check to see if
> this person is an actual subscriber to NAGDU? If I am correct,
> this forward or reply has not changed at all with the exception
> of the name which is now Dawn instead of Brandy. I am going to
> block it on my computer just to be safe as it is just weird as we
> continuously get this same message lacking any narrative or
> response from the sender whomever it is. Anyone know this
> person?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Dawn Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 7:06 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chasity Jackson <chasityvanda at charter.net
> Sent: Saturday, 17 July, 2010 21:36
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> In the event that we get a security member who insists that we
> remove the dog's gear, how can we affectively argue the point.
> Perhaps saying, "The regulations don't require me to do that,"
> wouldn't be enough...And you know how people can sometimes be, if
> you ask for their supervisor, they are conveniently not
> available, so the staff member claims.
>
> I live in St. Louis and have never had a problem with airport
> security, but was just wondering what is the most affective way
> to handle it in the event it arises.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
>
> That is really asking too much and putting you at risk for your
> dog running off!
>
> As for the pouch with the poop bags and the like, well, my boy
> gets a bit agitated when they start digging in that pouch, I
> think he'd probably get rather upset if they actually removed
> that pouch from his harness and tried to confiscate it. I'd
> probably definitely know about it if that happened!
> (smile!) Wonder what they'd even want with a pouch with poop
> bags anyway.
> Never know about these security types, do you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Pawpower Creations
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:28 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> This is very true. By law they can not ask you to remove the
> dogs gear.
> Both Rox and I have experienced this, and we refused to remove
> either the harness or cape. We have had some interesting
> experiences in security, but so far they have not tried to force
> us to remove the gear. Asking you to remove the leash and
> collar is totally wrong. In fact I would contact the person in
> charge of airport security and report the incident and explain
> the law. If some one else on this list has information on how
> the law reads that would be good.
> I would
> be interested in knowing, and I will do some research and try
> and find out as well.
>
>
> Best wishes from the Pawpower pack!
> Bristol, Mill'E, Rudy, and Laveau
>
> Pawpower Creations, Products designed with you and your Canine
> in mind Bob Blackner/Rox'E Homstad
> 504-312-2609
> pawpower at cox.net
> www.pawpowercreations.com
> Custom made guide dog harnesses, leashes, collars, and relieving
> harnesses.
> Pawpower Creations is constantly growing and expanding as we
> strive to provide quality products for you and your canine
> companions.
> Soon we
> will be offering herb classes taught by a certified Herbalist,
> dog training classes, a training tips section, and other useful
> information for a nominal charge.
>
> We will also be selling hand crafted soaps, bath salts, and
> other fragrant products designed to relax the mind, cleanse the
> body, and soothe, calm and uplift your spirit.
>
> With eye upraised his master's look to scan, The joy, the
> solace, and the aid of man:
> The rich man's guardian and the poor man's friend, The only
> creature faithful to the end.
>
> George Crabbe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
>
> Julie and listers,
> You should never even take your dog's harness off.
> What if you were traveling alone, and your dog decided to make a
> run for it, have an adventure?
>
> I know there are people on this list who can verify that the
> regulations do not require removal of the harness, let alone
> leash and collar.
>
> I had no difficulty on either end going to National Convention.
> Though I have had variances, such as people asking that we go
> through together, and they pat us both down, this is what I
> usually
> do:
> Have my dog sit at the door, make a long leash, go through
> first, and then call her.
> They will then call a guard to pat the dog down. I have never
> been asked to remove the harness.
> The worst thing that happened is that once, they confiscated the
> little poop patrol container that had plastic bags inside for
> pickup.
> I didn't realize it until we were on the plane. Not worth
> bothering about.
>
> Susan & Rhoda
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Guide dogs and airport security
>
> Hi everyone. I hope you are having a nice weekend.
>
> I just got back from a week long trip to Philadelphia this
> morning.
> At the airport both going there and coming back something weird
> happened in airport security. I am wondering if there are some
> policies I don't know about, or if the people were really doing
> something wrong.
>
> Last Sunday I traveled from St. Louis to Philadelphia. When we
> got to airport security, I took the dog's harness off and put it
> with my purse and everything on the conveyerbelt. I made her
> sit and stay while I went through and then called her after I
> was out. She came right to me, and of course she made the thing
> beep because of her leash and collar. I just waited at this
> point because this is what always happens, and someone always
> comes to pat the dog down.
> The
> last 2 times I have traveled it happened this way. Instead of
> coming over to pat the dog down, they asked me if I could take
> her leash and collar off and make her go back through. I said
> that I would really prefer not to do that, and I said that I
> don't mind if they need to pat her down because that's what
> usually happens. They then asked me again to take off the leash
> and collar. I didn't know how to argue with them further, so I
> just did what they said. I took off the leash and collar and
> let my mother call her back through.
> Thankfully, she was very good. I think she thought the whole
> thing was a game. She went through without her stuff on, and it
> didn't go off, and she came right to me. It was very hard to
> get a handle on her though without her stuff, and the security
> people had taken her leash and collar, so it wasn't like I could
> just put it back on her.
> I had to wait for them to scan it, which meant I had to hold on
> to her awkwardly and walk to where the stuff was going to come
> out.
> Brie was very good, but the whole process annoyed me. I don't
>
> understand why they couldn't just pat the dog down. That's what
> happened when I flew to and from Dallas. It seemed to work fine.
> I know how to take my dog through security. They tought us at
> guide dog school.
>
> When I flew back to St. Louis this morning I experienced a
> similar thing _______________________________________________
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