[nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

Sat Jul 31 17:09:40 UTC 2010

Danielle,

I love how you and Jordan describe puppy raising!  It's a never-ending 24/7
project, but when you enjoy it so much, it hardly counts as work, does it?
/smile/

I guess, thinking back, I did what you do...  Ask!  I guess I wasn't
thinking of it in legal terms at the time, I was simply trying to meet my
dog's training and exposure needs while doing my best to maintain courtesy
towards others myself... Especially when she was a wriggly, levitating
perpetual motion machine of a pup!

As an owner-trainer, I spent a lot of time in a sort of gray zone, though,
between "fully trained" working guide and learning on the job guide.  If
that makes sense.  Without the division of labor between puppy raiser and
guide dog trainer, there's no clear transition between socialization and
guide training.  So I was confused as to where I stood on a legal basis, but
really much to exhausted to worry about it.  /smile/  There were a couple of
times when I wondered what would have happened in case of dog attack or the
like, but am just as happy I never had to find out!  Whew!

But as an owner-trainer, I will always be strongly opposed to the notion of
ID or certification.  Were I raising a puppy for a school which had worked
out arrangements  before hand, as I think GDB does here in Portland -- thus,
the green vests! -- that would be a different matter.  But I would not want
to be disallowed to train my pup because I was my own school.

Of course, while I've played with the idea of raising a pup for a school,
I've never followed through.  The thought of giving it up just as it was
becoming a dog was a bit much.  Well, also, I ended up  never having time or
the right living circumstances what with following my career and all.
Anyway, I do love your stories of puppy raising with guide dogs.  /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Danielle Nicole Larsen
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:06 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

It's hardly that I have a problem asking for prermisison. I do it constantly

and would not take back one second of it. It's a natural thing to 
immediately call ahead or target managment as soon as I enter any place.
I love puppy raising and anything that comes with it. At this time that does

mean taking the time to ensure a pup is allowed osmewhere!!!
Now, I also do NOT think that blind people shouldn't have a right to 
privacy. Being blind I expect to have the same privacy rights as everyone 
else!
But I also think if making dogs part of your life, as trianing them or as a 
guide, is the choice you make then you should be prepared for all that ocmes

with it.  I don't feel like ID grants me a right to take my puppy in 
training anywhere, but if one day that does happen I'd be happy about it.
I do think that there is nothign wrong with having to present ID if you have

a serviec dog. As a person considering a TSE guide, I would be okay with 
that. Because that's what I chose! It has nothign to do with privacy it's 
ensuring the law is being followed. So what if things have to be different. 
Being blind or VI that happens anway. It still takes a differen tway around 
getting things done, so it's just one little thing. I won't think an ID 
needs your life story or anything like that.
I dont' really see the circumstance in the scenario you described?
Could you explain that a little better?

I love puppy raising. I love every part of it. The late nights of a pup with

an upset stomach, calling ahead, making plans to take my puppy somewhere, 
teaching him not to bark at puppies. Not to lunge at squirrels. And making 
plans to take a puppy somewhere is a huge part of it and a commitment I'm 
fine with.
The ID v. not is a whole sepearte issue and everyon will have a different 
opinion with that!
But in general I think that if ONE DAY puppies in training were considered 
protected under the law for their safety and access rights, I'd be pleased 
but not a neccessity
-D

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising

> Yes, and very scary that this is the attitude of some raisers. Hard to
> say if it's an attitude because showing an ID card might make their life
> easier, or because they feel that a blind person is not entitled to the
> same privacy rights as everybody else.
> Jordan, can you explain your position?
> Also, I'd like to see how this would really play out. If Dan and Jordan
> showed up with a guide dog and a puppy, would Dan be asked to show ID,
> but Jordan not be required to show ID? The lack of parody is
> frightening. It would be just as bad if Jordan was required to show ID
> but Dan was not, though we could take the attitude that Jordan chose to
> raise a puppy, chose to enter an establishment that is traditionally not
> dog friendly, so his/her interaction would be akin to an adult buying a
> drink.
> Thoughts guys?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dan Weiner
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:36 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL: Puppy raising
>
> You don't understand, Becca, blind people don't have a right to
> privacy--smile.
> Anyone who asks us anything and we're just supposed to assume it's an
> authority figure and they have a right to see an id.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan and Carter the clown
>
>
>
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m 

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