[nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says SeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant

Tue Jun 15 11:39:29 UTC 2010

Julie,
    Thank you for your message to the list. Just a point of information, 
there is absolutely no requirement for us to produce any sort of 
documentation in order to be allowed access with our service animals. Though 
some state laws require it, the ADA supercedes these laws and, therefore, 
they are unenforceable. According to the U.S. Department of Justice 
(attached) a business may ask if you are disabled, if the animal is a 
service animal, what service the animal provides and how it was trained. 
They may not ask for documentation as a prerequisite for admittance. HTH!

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says 
SeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant


> This is really interesting.  I have only been asked about a handful of
> times if my dog is a service dog, and I have only had to show my doggy
> ID once.  That was at the Empire State Building.  It must be about
> where you live whether people ask you to varify that the dog is a
> guide dog..  Here in St. Louis people must recognize that my dog is a
> guide dog, so they don't bother us about it.  I wonder why some cities
> are stricter about this kind of thing.  Just curious.
>
> On 6/14/10, Gail <deerskin at oct.net> wrote:
>> Having recongnisable tack, and an ID badge for the dog does wonders for
>> preventing access problems before they can even start. I've only had one
>> problem with access, and that was getting permission to go to Mass with 
>> my
>> SD. Took at least 2 years, and a change of pastors, before they got the 
>> idea
>> that i couldnt go out without my dog's help.
>>
>> Gail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Date: 6/14/2010 1:05:51 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing
>> Eyedognotallowedintorestaurant
>>
>> There's nothing like a toddler to put the world into perspective.  /lol/
>> Since we're not right next dor to our favorite toddler anymore, I miss 
>> all
>> those little opportunities to just watch her process the world and learn.
>> Without having to go our and come up with a toddler of my own, of course!
>> /grin/  I leave that to braver souls than I.
>>
>> It seems to be a good analogy to some adults' interactions with service
>> dogs.  Portland is slowly morphing from super-dog friendly to more
>> restrained about where dogs do and don't go.  So now I get to say, "Yes,
>> she's a service dog," every time I walk in someplace.  In a few places,
>> though, I've noticed that the question gets blurted out of the way real
>> fast
>> so that whoever dutifully asked can start gushing over the poodle.  Who
>> knows very well how to milk the attention. Sigh.  When she was younger, I
>> was pretty permissive with people because Mitzi was so reserved that I
>> wanted to ensure she wouldn't be too stressed to work around people...
>>
>> Problem solved!  New problem created.  Sigh.  Well, the beauty of being 
>> an
>> owner-trainer is that when you've been lax in your work and need to go 
>> back
>> to school, you don't have to ship the dog out.  The bummer of being a
>> first-time owner-trainer and guide dog user is that you find yourself
>> having
>> to go back to school because when you have your mind on other things, you
>> slip into bad habits.  I figure the year I come into spring without
>> suddenly
>> noticing that I need to put too much time and energy into fixing my slack
>> habits and reminding the dog not to get slack because of it, I will be 
>> able
>> to call myself a guide dog handler.
>>
>> Sorry for the digression.  /smile/  I have an opportunity to go do some
>> crowd and store work today, and am disgusted with myself for having to
>> think
>> my way through what I want to work on because I've gotten too lazy about
>> just taking quick hops in the car instead of making sure I give my dog 
>> real
>> work.
>>
>> Good thing I don't have a toddler, eh?  /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:49 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye
>> dognotallowedintorestaurant
>>
>> I have a preschooler. I can tell you that she understands very well
>> about when you do and do not pet a dog. I can also tell you that if she
>> had any inkling you'd let her pet your dog because you think she is too
>> young to undersand, she'd milk it for all it's worth for as long as she
>> could.
>> Reading this post makes me hear a chorus of preschoolers and toddlers
>> saying altogether "sucker!"
>> Do whatever you want with your dog, just know that the toddler and
>> preschool crowd is one smart bunch and knows how to work the system to
>> get what they want... if you allow it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette
>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:46 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>> notallowedintorestaurant
>>
>> In response to the observation of guide dog access in Chinese
>> restaurants, I
>> have recently attended an ethnic Chinese church with experiences of
>> acceptance and interest. A church congregation has potentially even more
>> opportunities to discourage guide dog users from attending services or
>> events than a restaurant. While the public is admitted to a church,
>> social
>> exclusion can be an informal barrier. The Chinese folks I encountered
>> are
>> teaching their children about guide dogs as they encounter Abby, my 50
>> lb.
>> German Shepherd from Seeing Eye. I have deliberately relaxed my usual
>> rules
>> to allow them to touch and pet her as she sits in harness so they will
>> not
>> be afraid, and have a positive association. These are toddlers and
>> preschoolers. To the few older kids, I explain the rules about the
>> harness
>> being her "work uniform" etc. I have not always had such positive
>> experiences particularly in churches- but don't get me started!/smile/.
>> I
>> am a Christian, and I relate to that world-wide group of people who have
>> in
>> common changed lives by their faith in Jesus of Nazareth as the living
>> savior.  That said, some of my "relatives" embarrass me thoroughly by
>> their
>> actions and attitudes toward persons with disabilities. Referring to
>> disability issues, a friend told me, "Basically, there are 2 broad types
>> of
>> people in the world, those who accept persons with disabilities as equal
>> human beings, and those who exclude and scape goat them at every
>> opportunity." I think there is a middle ground even in that dichotomy.
>>
>> My point is that as with any particular group of human beings sharing a
>> commonality, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc.  context is important
>> and
>> stereotypes don't always fit. I guess I just want to contribute another
>> viewpoint on Chinese people.
>>
>> Thanks for listening-
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:02 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>> notallowedintorestaurant
>>
>> We also have to remember for whatever reason here, is that I am not
>> picking
>> on anyone, but I have found it primarily to the the Chinese restaurants
>> in
>> my area, when I first got maxx that I had issues with, accept the girls
>> from
>>
>> a Spanish country, who were not management and lied that the management
>> said
>>
>> my dog couldn't come in the restaurant, were finally fired very recently
>> in
>> fact for doing it again to another person who had a service animal who
>> wasn't blind, but had an assist dog with them.
>>
>> As I was saying it seems like the Chinese restaurants seem to have
>> issues
>> with them, there maybe others out there I am sure, but for the most part
>>
>> that is what I am finding, until, of course, I have other issues.
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Travel Consultant
>> C10-10646
>>
>> http://Echevarriatravel.com
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
>> http://blog.echevarriatravel.com
>> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>> notallowedinto
>>
>> restaurant
>>
>>
>>> That would be a worth while article to read as well. Thanks for
>> updating
>>> us
>>> Buddy.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Buddy Brannan
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:32 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>>> allowedinto restaurant
>>>
>>> I just saw an update to this article. Apparently the owners of the
>>> restaurant went out to this woman's house, in person, and apologized.
>> They
>>> have further suspended the employee in question for a week without
>> pay,
>>> and
>>> they have pledged a donation to the Seeing Eye. Sounds like they
>> really
>>> want
>>> to make amends to me.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>>>
>>> > I have a simple approach for such incidents. I explain to the
>> employee
>>> that
>>> > my guide dog is my eyes and is protected by law. If they insist we
>>> > cannot
>>> be
>>> > served, I ask for the manager. Once I confirm that the manager is
>> also
>>> > refusing us service, I quietly ask, "Would you like to call the
>> police,
>>> > or
>>> > shall I call them?" In most cases, this question alerts them to the
>> fact
>>> > that they are wrong. In 2 out of many incidents, either a manager or
>> I
>>> have
>>> > called police who talk directly to management about the law,
>> reinforcing
>>> > what I have explained.  The result is that we are served
>> excellently,
>>> often
>>> > with apologies. Also, the rights of all dog users are protected.  I
>> am
>>> > convinced that each single incident is important because guide dog
>> users
>>> are
>>> > a triple minority- disabled people are a minority, blindness is a
>>> > minority
>>> > of that group, and guide dog users are a minority of blind people.
>> We
>>> > have
>>> > to support each other on access issues, or the law becomes
>> ineffective,
>>> and
>>> > we all lose.
>>> > (OK, I'm stepping off my "soapbox". It's early Saturday morning-
>> time
>>> > for
>>> a
>>> > cup of coffee! Happy Saturday everyone!
>>> >
>>> > Cathryn (& Abby)
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> > Behalf
>>> > Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 8:22 PM
>>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>>> > allowedintorestaurant
>>> >
>>> > There must be some sort of way to teach the general public about
>> guide
>>> > dog
>>>
>>> > access legislation. The Patriot Ledger is my home town news paper
>> and I
>>> live
>>> >
>>> > a few miles away from the area where this incident took place.
>> Brockton
>>> > MA
>>>
>>> > is an interesting town to say the least. This man referred to might
>> not
>>> > understand American law. This might partly explain this incident.
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
>>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:01 AM
>>> > Subject: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>> allowed
>>> > intorestaurant
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not allowed into
>>> >> restaurant
>>> >> By Maria Papadopoulos
>>> >> ENTERPRISE STAFF WRITER
>>> >> Posted Jun 11, 2010 @ 01:38 AM
>>> >>
>>> >> BROCKTON, MASS.  - Claire Crowell says she could not see the man
>>> >> who refused to let her Seeing Eye dog accompany her into a city
>>> >> restaurant.
>>> >>
>>> >> She could only hear him - and his words stunned her.
>>> >>
>>> >> "He said, 'I don't care, you can't come in here with the dog,'"
>>> >> Crowell, 69, said while standing next to the dog, Vixen, in the
>>> >> kitchen of her Brockton home Thursday afternoon.
>>> >>
>>> >> Crowell said she and a friend went to the Chinatown restaurant on
>>> >> Oak Street Extension on Wednesday for lunch.
>>> >>
>>> >> When she walked inside with Vixen, she said a male employee told
>>> >> her she could come in, but to leave the dog outside.
>>> >>
>>> >> Crowell said she told the employee that federal law allows her to
>>> >> bring a guide dog into the restaurant, but the man refused the
>>> >> dog again. Crowell then left the restaurant.
>>> >>
>>> >> "I felt embarrassed and violated, you know? It's very
>>> >> embarrassing," Crowell said, crying. "It's hard enough to be a
>>> >> disabled person, but when you're treated like that, it's not
>>> >> fun."
>>> >>
>>> >> The federal Americans with Disabilities Act requires
>>> >> privately-owned businesses that serve the public to allow people
>>> >> with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business
>>> >> premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed. The
>>> >> law applies to businesses including restaurants, hotels, retail
>>> >> stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls and sports facilities.
>>> >>
>>> >> State law says that whoever deprives a physically handicapped
>>> >> person this right may be fined $300 and is liable for civil
>>> >> action.
>>> >>
>>> >> At Chinatown restaurant on Thursday, employee Dominic So said
>>> >> that he refused to let Vixen, Crowell's dog, into the restaurant
>>> >> on Wednesday.
>>> >>
>>> >> "I work here. I have the right to stop the dog," said So, 50. "I
>>> >> won't let a dog in the restaurant."
>>> >>
>>> >> When informed of the federal law that allows a guide dog to be
>>> >> inside the restaurant, So said, "I have no clue."
>>> >>
>>> >> "The dog can wait outside," So said. "When she eats, she doesn't
>>> >> need the dog. When she walks, she needs the dog. I understand
>>> >> that."
>>> >>
>>> >> So said that Crowell could have people assist her inside the
>>> >> restaurant, but the dog should stay outside.
>>> >>
>>> >> "I just can't let a dog in the dining room when I have customers
>>> >> dining here," So said. "If she insists I violated her rights,
>>> >> there's nothing I can do. I'm right to refuse a dog in the
>>> >> restaurant."
>>> >>
>>> >> Businesses refusing guide dogs is seen regularly, and often
>>> >> results from a misunderstanding on the part of business owners,
>>> >> said Chris Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of
>>> >> the Blind in Baltimore.
>>> >>
>>> >> "You simply have to educate the business owner," he said. "If a
>>> >> business owner actually refuses, it can lead to seeking charges
>>> >> to being filed."
>>> >>
>>> >> "It's obviously very upsetting to the person that it happens to,"
>>> >> he added.
>>> >>
>>> >> If Crowell made a complaint to police, officers would go to the
>>> >> restaurant to explain the law to employees, police Lt. Tom
>>> >> LaFratta said.
>>> >>
>>> >> "If they still refuse, I would take punitive action," LaFratta
>>> >> said.
>>> >>
>>> >> Crowell said she formerly worked as a medical assistant before an
>>> >> autoimmune condition led to the deterioration of her eyesight
>>> >> over the past three decades. She became legally blind in the
>>> >> 1990s.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hugging Vixen, she said she relies on the part golden retriever,
>>> >> part Labrador retriever on showing her the way.
>>> >>
>>> >> "The dog is my eyes," she said. "She is supposed to see for me
>>> >> and guide me where I need to go."
>>> >>
>>> >> Maria Papadopoulos can be reached at
>>> >> mpapadopoulos at enterprisenews.com.
>>> >>
>>> >> Source:
>>> >> http://www.patriotledger.com/business/x1602635111/Blind-Brockton-
>>> >> woman-Seeing-Eye-dog-not-allowed-into-restaurant
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >
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>
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
> Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
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