[nagdu] Blind BrocktonwomansaysSeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant

Tue Jun 15 21:37:26 UTC 2010

No, I live in San Diego, CA and the lawyer I spoke of is very much alive and 
well.  Last I heard this guy went to LA to try his crap there and then I 
heard we had him back again.  But, I haven't heard of him pulling anything 
lately.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gail" <deerskin at oct.net>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind 
BrocktonwomansaysSeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant

> Do you live in Florida? I think I know the 'lawyer' you might be thinking 
> of
> If so, the man died a couple of years ago. He used to run Yahoo groups for
> PWDs who train their own SDs, and he fomented that kind of troublemaking
> mindset in all his groups, or ones he would lurk in. I got so sick of him
> and the malarky he got up to that I left all the SD groups. Lost a lot of
> friends too, because of him. Biggest fraud I've ever heard of. Just hope
> that now he is gone, that kind of 'forcing the ADA' on people will stop.
> There are better way to solve the problem than his way.
>
> Gail
>
>
>
> -------Original Message------- 
>
> From: Linda Gwizdak
> Date: 6/14/2010 8:06:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton
> womansaysSeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant
>
> Hey Gail,
> Sure hope those troublemakers have quit their crap. We have a lawyer 
> around
> Here who does that same sort of thing - only he tries to sue cities for
> Violating the ADA and also small businesses that cannot afford to make 
> their
>
> Place acessible to wheelchairs. With "friends" like that, who needs
> Enemies??
>
> Someone ought to slap those PWDs silly! These folks do NOTHING to further
> Our cause of gaining access to our service dogs - like the ones who bring 
> a
> Bowl of goldfish and boa constrictors on planes and claim they're "service
> Animals". The proposed new changes to the ADA hope to address these 
> issues.
>
> I think you were on the list before I came on. I'm Lyn and I'm working my
> Eighth dog, Landon who is a Lab/Golden cross. He's four years old. We live
> In sunny San Diego! Welcome back!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gail" <deerskin at oct.net>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman
> SaysSeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant
>
>
>> There was a period, a few years ago, where people were trying to sneak
>> their
>> pets in everywhere by putting a vest or bandana on, and also some
>> legitimately disabled people going out with their dogs 'nude', only 
>> collar
>
>> and leash. Both types were causing trouble out here in the Kansas area, 
>> at
>
>> least, especially after the passing of the laws on owner training, and 
>> the
>
>> ID law. (in Kansas, SDs are supposed to have a visible ID badge, showing
>> dog
>> and owner info, and program that trained the dog. Of course, Fed law
>> trumping state law, I was likely the only one in the state who actually
>> had
>> one! <wry grin>
>>
>> One bunch of PWDs I knew of loved to go to ethnic restaurants, SDs 
>> wearing
>
>> no working tack at all, and when the owner would try to throw them out 
>> for
>
>> being pet owners, raise Cain with them for breaking the law. They set up
>> the
>> situation specifically to get the oriental/etc owner angry, to push his
>> buttons, and the goal was to get a free meal for the lot of 
>> troublemakers!
>
>>
>> Gail
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message------- 
>>
>> From: Julie McGinnity
>> Date: 6/14/2010 4:13:20 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says
>> SeeingEyedognotallowedintorestaurant
>>
>> This is really interesting. I have only been asked about a handful of
>> Times if my dog is a service dog, and I have only had to show my doggy
>> ID once. That was at the Empire State Building. It must be about
>> Where you live whether people ask you to varify that the dog is a
>> Guide dog.. Here in St. Louis people must recognize that my dog is a
>> Guide dog, so they don't bother us about it. I wonder why some cities
>> Are stricter about this kind of thing. Just curious.
>>
>> On 6/14/10, Gail <deerskin at oct.net> wrote:
>>> Having recongnisable tack, and an ID badge for the dog does wonders for
>>> preventing access problems before they can even start. I've only had one
>>> problem with access, and that was getting permission to go to Mass with
>>> my
>>
>>> SD. Took at least 2 years, and a change of pastors, before they got the
>> idea
>>> that I couldnt go out without my dog's help.
>>>
>>> Gail
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------Original Message------- 
>>>
>>> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>> Date: 6/14/2010 1:05:51 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing
>>> Eyedognotallowedintorestaurant
>>>
>>> There's nothing like a toddler to put the world into perspective. /lol/
>>> Since we're not right next dor to our favorite toddler anymore, I miss
>>> all
>>
>>> those little opportunities to just watch her process the world and 
>>> learn.
>
>>> Without having to go our and come up with a toddler of my own, of 
>>> course!
>
>>> /grin/ I leave that to braver souls than I.
>>>
>>> It seems to be a good analogy to some adults' interactions with service
>>> dogs. Portland is slowly morphing from super-dog friendly to more
>>> restrained about where dogs do and don't go. So now I get to say, "Yes,
>>> she's a service dog," every time I walk in someplace. In a few places,
>>> though, I've noticed that the question gets blurted out of the way real
>>> fast
>>> so that whoever dutifully asked can start gushing over the poodle. Who
>>> knows very well how to milk the attention. Sigh. When she was younger, I
>>> was pretty permissive with people because Mitzi was so reserved that I
>>> wanted to ensure she wouldn't be too stressed to work around people...
>>>
>>> Problem solved! New problem created. Sigh. Well, the beauty of being an
>>> owner-trainer is that when you've been lax in your work and need to go
>> back
>>> to school, you don't have to ship the dog out. The bummer of being a
>>> first-time owner-trainer and guide dog user is that you find yourself
>>> having
>>> to go back to school because when you have your mind on other things, 
>>> you
>
>>> slip into bad habits. I figure the year I come into spring without
>>> suddenly
>>> noticing that I need to put too much time and energy into fixing my 
>>> slack
>
>>> habits and reminding the dog not to get slack because of it, I will be
>> able
>>> to call myself a guide dog handler.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the digression. /smile/ I have an opportunity to go do some
>>> crowd and store work today, and am disgusted with myself for having to
>>> think
>>> my way through what I want to work on because I've gotten too lazy about
>>> just taking quick hops in the car instead of making sure I give my dog
>> real
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Good thing I don't have a toddler, eh? /grin/
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>
>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:49 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye
>>> dognotallowedintorestaurant
>>>
>>> I have a preschooler. I can tell you that she understands very well
>>> about when you do and do not pet a dog. I can also tell you that if she
>>> had any inkling you'd let her pet your dog because you think she is too
>>> young to undersand, she'd milk it for all it's worth for as long as she
>>> could.
>>> Reading this post makes me hear a chorus of preschoolers and toddlers
>>> saying altogether "sucker!"
>>> Do whatever you want with your dog, just know that the toddler and
>>> preschool crowd is one smart bunch and knows how to work the system to
>>> get what they want... if you allow it.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:46 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>>> notallowedintorestaurant
>>>
>>> In response to the observation of guide dog access in Chinese
>>> restaurants, I
>>> have recently attended an ethnic Chinese church with experiences of
>>> acceptance and interest. A church congregation has potentially even more
>>> opportunities to discourage guide dog users from attending services or
>>> events than a restaurant. While the public is admitted to a church,
>>> social
>>> exclusion can be an informal barrier. The Chinese folks I encountered
>>> are
>>> teaching their children about guide dogs as they encounter Abby, my 50
>>> lb.
>>> German Shepherd from Seeing Eye. I have deliberately relaxed my usual
>>> rules
>>> to allow them to touch and pet her as she sits in harness so they will
>>> not
>>> be afraid, and have a positive association. These are toddlers and
>>> preschoolers. To the few older kids, I explain the rules about the
>>> harness
>>> being her "work uniform" etc. I have not always had such positive
>>> experiences particularly in churches- but don't get me started!/smile/.
>>> I
>>> am a Christian, and I relate to that world-wide group of people who have
>>> in
>>> common changed lives by their faith in Jesus of Nazareth as the living
>>> savior. That said, some of my "relatives" embarrass me thoroughly by
>>> their
>>> actions and attitudes toward persons with disabilities. Referring to
>>> disability issues, a friend told me, "Basically, there are 2 broad types
>>> of
>>> people in the world, those who accept persons with disabilities as equal
>>> human beings, and those who exclude and scape goat them at every
>>> opportunity." I think there is a middle ground even in that dichotomy.
>>>
>>> My point is that as with any particular group of human beings sharing a
>>> commonality, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc. context is important
>>> and
>>> stereotypes don't always fit. I guess I just want to contribute another
>>> viewpoint on Chinese people.
>>>
>>> Thanks for listening-
>>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of cheryl echevarria
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:02 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>>> notallowedintorestaurant
>>>
>>> We also have to remember for whatever reason here, is that I am not
>>> picking
>>> on anyone, but I have found it primarily to the the Chinese restaurants
>>> in
>>> my area, when I first got maxx that I had issues with, accept the girls
>>> from
>>>
>>> a Spanish country, who were not management and lied that the management
>>> said
>>>
>>> my dog couldn't come in the restaurant, were finally fired very recently
>>> in
>>> fact for doing it again to another person who had a service animal who
>>> wasn't blind, but had an assist dog with them.
>>>
>>> As I was saying it seems like the Chinese restaurants seem to have
>>> issues
>>> with them, there maybe others out there I am sure, but for the most part
>>>
>>> that is what I am finding, until, of course, I have other issues.
>>>
>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>> Independent Travel Consultant
>>> C10-10646
>>>
>>> http://Echevarriatravel.com
>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>>
>>> http://blog.echevarriatravel.com
>>> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>> CST-1018299-10
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog
>>> notallowedinto
>>>
>>> restaurant
>>>
>>>
>>>> That would be a worth while article to read as well. Thanks for
>>> updating
>>>> us
>>>> Buddy.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Buddy Brannan
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:32 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>>>> allowedinto restaurant
>>>>
>>>> I just saw an update to this article. Apparently the owners of the
>>>> restaurant went out to this woman's house, in person, and apologized.
>>> They
>>>> have further suspended the employee in question for a week without
>>> pay,
>>>> and
>>>> they have pledged a donation to the Seeing Eye. Sounds like they
>>> really
>>>> want
>>>> to make amends to me.
>>>> -- 
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I have a simple approach for such incidents. I explain to the
>>> employee
>>>> that
>>>> > my guide dog is my eyes and is protected by law. If they insist we
>>>> > cannot
>>>> be
>>>> > served, I ask for the manager. Once I confirm that the manager is
>>> also
>>>> > refusing us service, I quietly ask, "Would you like to call the
>>> police,
>>>> > or
>>>> > shall I call them?" In most cases, this question alerts them to the
>>> fact
>>>> > that they are wrong. In 2 out of many incidents, either a manager or
>>> I
>>>> have
>>>> > called police who talk directly to management about the law,
>>> reinforcing
>>>> > what I have explained. The result is that we are served
>>> excellently,
>>>> often
>>>> > with apologies. Also, the rights of all dog users are protected. I
>>> am
>>>> > convinced that each single incident is important because guide dog
>>> users
>>>> are
>>>> > a triple minority- disabled people are a minority, blindness is a
>>>> > minority
>>>> > of that group, and guide dog users are a minority of blind people.
>>> We
>>>> > have
>>>> > to support each other on access issues, or the law becomes
>>> ineffective,
>>>> and
>>>> > we all lose.
>>>> > (OK, I'm stepping off my "soapbox". It's early Saturday morning-
>>> time
>>>> > for
>>>> a
>>>> > cup of coffee! Happy Saturday everyone!
>>>> >
>>>> > Cathryn (& Abby)
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message----- 
>>>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> > Behalf
>>>> > Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>>>> > allowedintorestaurant
>>>> >
>>>> > There must be some sort of way to teach the general public about
>>> guide
>>>> > dog
>>>>
>>>> > access legislation. The Patriot Ledger is my home town news paper
>>> and I
>>>> live
>>>> >
>>>> > a few miles away from the area where this incident took place.
>>> Brockton
>>>> > MA
>>>>
>>>> > is an interesting town to say the least. This man referred to might
>>> not
>>>> > understand American law. This might partly explain this incident.
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> > From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
>>>> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:01 AM
>>>> > Subject: [nagdu] Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not
>>> allowed
>>>> > intorestaurant
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Blind Brockton woman says Seeing Eye dog not allowed into
>>>> >> restaurant
>>>> >> By Maria Papadopoulos
>>>> >> ENTERPRISE STAFF WRITER
>>>> >> Posted Jun 11, 2010 @ 01:38 AM
>>>> >>
>>>> >> BROCKTON, MASS. - Claire Crowell says she could not see the man
>>>> >> who refused to let her Seeing Eye dog accompany her into a city
>>>> >> restaurant.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> She could only hear him - and his words stunned her.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "He said, 'I don't care, you can't come in here with the dog,'"
>>>> >> Crowell, 69, said while standing next to the dog, Vixen, in the
>>>> >> kitchen of her Brockton home Thursday afternoon.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Crowell said she and a friend went to the Chinatown restaurant on
>>>> >> Oak Street Extension on Wednesday for lunch.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When she walked inside with Vixen, she said a male employee told
>>>> >> her she could come in, but to leave the dog outside.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Crowell said she told the employee that federal law allows her to
>>>> >> bring a guide dog into the restaurant, but the man refused the
>>>> >> dog again. Crowell then left the restaurant.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "I felt embarrassed and violated, you know? It's very
>>>> >> embarrassing," Crowell said, crying. "It's hard enough to be a
>>>> >> disabled person, but when you're treated like that, it's not
>>>> >> fun."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The federal Americans with Disabilities Act requires
>>>> >> privately-owned businesses that serve the public to allow people
>>>> >> with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business
>>>> >> premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed. The
>>>> >> law applies to businesses including restaurants, hotels, retail
>>>> >> stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls and sports facilities.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> State law says that whoever deprives a physically handicapped
>>>> >> person this right may be fined $300 and is liable for civil
>>>> >> action.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> At Chinatown restaurant on Thursday, employee Dominic So said
>>>> >> that he refused to let Vixen, Crowell's dog, into the restaurant
>>>> >> on Wednesday.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "I work here. I have the right to stop the dog," said So, 50. "I
>>>> >> won't let a dog in the restaurant."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When informed of the federal law that allows a guide dog to be
>>>> >> inside the restaurant, So said, "I have no clue."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "The dog can wait outside," So said. "When she eats, she doesn't
>>>> >> need the dog. When she walks, she needs the dog. I understand
>>>> >> that."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So said that Crowell could have people assist her inside the
>>>> >> restaurant, but the dog should stay outside.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "I just can't let a dog in the dining room when I have customers
>>>> >> dining here," So said. "If she insists I violated her rights,
>>>> >> there's nothing I can do. I'm right to refuse a dog in the
>>>> >> restaurant."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Businesses refusing guide dogs is seen regularly, and often
>>>> >> results from a misunderstanding on the part of business owners,
>>>> >> said Chris Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of
>>>> >> the Blind in Baltimore.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "You simply have to educate the business owner," he said. "If a
>>>> >> business owner actually refuses, it can lead to seeking charges
>>>> >> to being filed."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "It's obviously very upsetting to the person that it happens to,"
>>>> >> he added.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If Crowell made a complaint to police, officers would go to the
>>>> >> restaurant to explain the law to employees, police Lt. Tom
>>>> >> LaFratta said.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "If they still refuse, I would take punitive action," LaFratta
>>>> >> said.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Crowell said she formerly worked as a medical assistant before an
>>>> >> autoimmune condition led to the deterioration of her eyesight
>>>> >> over the past three decades. She became legally blind in the
>>>> >> 1990s.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hugging Vixen, she said she relies on the part golden retriever,
>>>> >> part Labrador retriever on showing her the way.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "The dog is my eyes," she said. "She is supposed to see for me
>>>> >> and guide me where I need to go."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Maria Papadopoulos can be reached at
>>>> >> mpapadopoulos at enterprisenews.com.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Source:
>>>> >> http://www.patriotledger.com/business/x1602635111/Blind-Brockton-
>>>> >> woman-Seeing-Eye-dog-not-allowed-into-restaurant
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> nagdu:
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>>> om
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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