[nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs

Linda Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Wed Mar 10 19:24:20 UTC 2010


Hi,
I think gender is a consideration on how people react to us as blind people. 
If you are a large, masculine person, people will respond to you differently 
than if you a a small, feminine person.

As a masculine person, I won't be "protected" from harm and I don't get 
bothered by people too much - I'm also an Orange Belt in Soo Bahk Do and use 
the techniques to stop a problem in its tracks.  I am very loud when I want 
to be! (grin!)  I find that little, feminine people get people running to 
assist them and "protect" them when trouble comes their way.  Howwever, I 
don't go looking for trouble and I try to be respectful of all people.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs


> Tracy,
>
> It's hard to say, really, if it's because I'm a woman who is blind or just
> because I'm blind.  Maybe it would be more accurate to say the gender
> perception is on my part?  And it could have more to do with size and 
> build
> than with how body parts are organized.  /smile/  When my physical space 
> is
> violated -- and that now extends to my dog -- I guess there's part of me
> that would like to be big and brawny enough to have the option of knocking
> the offender down.  /rin/  Moreso, there have been a few times I've 
> realized
> they were likely to knock me down because they were doing the big bad 
> bully
> thing, clearly seeing a blind person as easy prey.  It hasn't ever gone 
> that
> far, outside of the living skills program, but I do not like feeling
> vulnerable that way!
>
> I'm also probably a lot more anxious when I perceive even a possible
> physical threat because I was assaulted there, and I am still having to 
> pay
> for treatment for injuries from more than one staff person.  So I'm sure I
> have more of a tendency to wonder if someone acting hinky is going to 
> "get"
> me and wonder if I need to be prepared to "get" them first or if I can 
> "get"
> them to not "get" me, or whatever.  It's not a way I am accustomed to
> thinking or feeling, and it's not really all that dramatic and strong, 
> just
> uncomfortable.
>
> I do associate those feelings with growing up in a place where women would
> be doing great to move up to second class citizen.  Now that I'm back in 
> the
> ranks of the insignificant, not "real" people, I do sometimes feel there's 
> a
> gender bias involved where they may not really be.  Huh...
>
> Either way, the regular encounters with boneheads, bozos and jerks need to
> be dealt with constructively, even if that just means getting them out of
> your way so you can continue down the sidewalk.  /smile/  Whatever 
> motivated
> a person to do something negative or even harmful or dangerous is not 
> what's
> important.
>
> Learning to deal with the negative emotions that I experience as a result 
> is
> difficult, but that's another of those things we each have to learn to 
> deal
> with in our own way.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:57 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>
> Tami, are you sure you're getting the helpless idiot treatment because
> you're a woman?  I get it too, and it drives me buggy, but my husband is
> losing his sight, and one of the things he hates about it is that so many
> people treat him like a helpless idiot.  I don't know how to help him deal
> with it, either.  There is the old snappy comeback "only my wife calls me
> sweetie" for instance, but it's hard to have the snappy comeback when you
> need it.
> Tracy
>
>
>> Oh, the gender difference drives me batty sometimes.  Well, quite a bit 
>> of
>> the time.  /grin/ I prefer using direct, clear communication to convey 
>> and
>> receive thoughts and ideas.  But, no, I've developed this extensive
>> repertoire of indirect, even -- I daresay! -- passive aggressive, means 
>> of
>> convincing people to just stay out of my way and let me go about my
>> business.
>>
>> It has been very hard to get used to, as has being treated like I'm
>> insignificant and helpless and, well, you know a l'il lady.  Ugh!  I 
>> don't
>> notice it so much now that I've had plenty of exposure, but at first it
>> just
>> got me all hot and bothered.
>>
>> The awareness that li'l ol' me and my funny poodle dog represent blind
>> people and guide dog users the world over also makes dealing with the
>> everyday space invasions, disruptions, obstructions, etc., more 
>> stressful.
>> It also makes coming up with a response I can live with difficult.  I
>> guess
>> I've adapted enough to have all those schticks and spiels and whatever to
>> keep it down to a bearable level, and I'm used to it enough that I don't
>> even notice it sometimes, or at least I accept it as part of walking
>> around
>> doing my thing.  Especially when I have to take the bus or the train to 
>> do
>> my thing!  I love having the bus and train, and I love riding them and
>> listening to the people around me because I am an inveterate people
>> watcher.
>>
>> I just prefer the people to stay out of my space and mind their own
>> business! /lol/
>>
>> I've also decided to go ahead and be effing rude when someone crosses the
>> line and a civil response doesn't work to get them back onto their own
>> side.
>> If onlookers want to think that blind people are inherently obnoxious
>> because of it, oh, well!  If they're close enough to observe my
>> response/reaction, they're close enough to see what provoked it.  I can't
>> help it if they have no judgment of their own!
>>
>> Every now and then when I start yapping on about some of these things we
>> li'l blind ladies have to put up with -- either something I heard about 
>> or
>> something that happened to me -- to DD, he gets all manly and 
>> belligerent.
>> "I just don't have patience for that sort of thing," he will say darkly.
>> "I'll only put up with it so long.  Then I'll cold cock 'em!"
>>
>> Ah, to be a big, tall, strapping fella!  /grin/  In theory, that simple,
>> straightforward, direct solution to the problem sounds much too tempting.
>> Then I remember that I don't have the physique for it anyway, so I
>> couldn't
>> really make it work.  Which is probably why I can cheerfully admit to
>> letting my brain carry on with images of cane whacking someone about the
>> head and shoulders while my good sense searches for a practical response.
>> /evil grin/  The mental image is very, very satisfying to my inner, uh,
>> whatever you want to call it; also, the imaginary cane is much more
>> substantial and impressive a weapon than the light things I actually 
>> carry
>> in my back pocket or purse.  Unfortunately, actually following through on
>> the image would just make me look really, really, foolish and, honestly,
>> completely nutty.  /grin/
>>
>> Not that DD goes around knocking down people who annoy him!  Which is a
>> good
>> thing for me. /grin/  Still, he does have the option of looking stern and
>> puffing up the muscles just a bit to remind people he can if he wants to.
>> I
>> try that on, and it just gets me more grief.  That posturing is something
>> I
>> do when ribbing with my buds to make them laugh.  /lol/
>>
>> Stepping between someone and my dog is something I do, too, but then I'm
>> face to face with some fool who doesn't respect me.  It will suddenly
>> occur
>> to me that this may not turn out well for me if the person's aggression
>> turns physical.  Apparently, my years growing up as a skinny, shirley
>> temple
>> clone of a brainy girl taught me something, because in my youth actually
>> pulled that sort of thing off with violently mentally unstable (too much
>> of
>> that inbred population!) men who were working up to an assault on one or
>> another of my friends.  There I would suddenly be, nose-to-nose with
>> someone
>> much bigger than me bent on irrational violence...  Oops!  But they 
>> always
>> backed down in the end.  Huh.  Then I grew up and moved away and didn't
>> have
>> to use that strange little skill until I started going about being all
>> blind
>> and stuff...
>>
>> Then again, I've been paying a lot for physical therapy for attacks from
>> behind from people who were being paid to help me.  So now I have this
>> sense
>> of vulnerability that I really hate.  I've also learned some techniques 
>> to
>> adapt my cowgirl physical self-defense skills to use on humans.  Haven't
>> had
>> to use that, but wish I had gone with my gut when the attacks occurred! 
>> I
>> had not previously been subject to physical violence in my adult life, so
>> just wasn't expecting it, tried to remain calm and use passive
>> self-defense
>> unstil I could deal with it in a civilized manner...  Oh.  Bad move on my
>> part.  We blind people are, like or not, fair game.  Those people who
>> inflicted the injuries I continue to recover from -- and that others are
>> paying to recover from -- still have jobs.
>>
>> Speaking of learning things the hard way!  Be careful what you type when
>> you're using JAWS and have dogs around. /lol/  I took a little break and
>> was
>> putzing in the kitchen, bent over to pick up something I had dropped just
>> as
>> Daisy hound decided to dash in front of me...  Taking a coonhound skull
>> ridge to the orbital bone didn't quite cold cock me, but I have felt a
>> little strange for the past few minutes.  Apparently, she is more
>> hard-headed than I am.  /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Jeanette Beal
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:58 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>
>> I'm wondering how much of the interaction between public and dog is
>> gender-based to the handler? As a woman, I know that I'm interacted with
>> on
>> a slightly different level than men - called 'little lady' by
>> many-a-older-guy on public transit, etc. I know there was a study done
>> recently (um, 20/20 special so not really a study) with a blind man & a
>> blind woman trying to buy pastries in a shop and the woman was actually
>> stood up for/defended more readily by an incredulous public than the man.
>> Is
>> this because women are inherently viewed as inferior and in need of
>> protection? Probably.
>> So when a female handler walks around with her dog is it  much easier to
>> disregard her and interact with her dog? Perhaps. I've had men spit in my
>> face because I told them to leave my dog alone. Granted he spit in my 
>> face
>> after he started petting my dog and I said no and he said F-off and I 
>> said
>> oh really? And stepped between dog & dude and dude then pushed at me so I
>> slapped him in the face and he spit on me and then....ran away. But the
>> main
>> point was I said no and he said "so?" and continued his bad behavior.
>> I have a hard time with this subject. It's so rooted in my need for 
>> safety
>> in public as a woman - using public transit and getting groped by a dude
>> behind or next to me feels as dirty and disgusting as unauthorized 
>> petting
>> of my dog by a stranger. So how do I reconcile my need for safety and
>> autonomy with the day-to-day hassles all handlers have in public?
>> I do so by not allowing people to pet my dog. By demanding that I be 
>> asked
>> first. By expecting my answer to be respected - if I say no it means no.
>> This goes for my body as much as my dog's.  And unfortunately the waiting
>> public takes away that I'm a rude, withholding human. But my safety is
>> more
>> important than public image.
>> Unfortunately we aren't in a vacuum and all blind people speak for all
>> blind
>> people in front of AB folks. So when someone lets the public pet their 
>> dog
>> in harness they send a message that I will to. And when I say no and am
>> assumed rude I send a message that all blind people are rude.
>> It's a crappy inter-connected all-disabled-folk-are-the-same world.
>> Jeanette
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Albert J Rizzi
>> <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
>>
>>> now there is the honest one in the group. I must confess that I too
>>> enjoy
>>> it
>>> when people take notice of my handsome lad. I do stop to let him take in
>>> the
>>> praise at times, though I always take his harness off. Now before you
>>> all
>>> go
>>> mad about that, it is a conscious decision I make and am willing to make
>>> for
>>> my dog and all the good work he does, I feel that if time allotted when
>>> I
>>> take the harness off it reinforces the work thing and out of work thing
>> for
>>> the dog. It also embarrasses  the petting offender and they always
>>> insist
>> I
>>> not go to any great lengths, which always allows for a honest and open I
>>> really should bet t my meeting.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:39 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>
>>> Hmm...  Maybe someone should make a project out of finding a mutt-ugly
>>> scurvy cur, slappying a guide dog harness on it and heading out into
>> public
>>> to see what happens?  /grin/  I've thought of designing a special poodle
>>> cut
>>> to uglify Mitzi...  I could have the groomer do her all lopsided and
>>> patch
>>> and stuff, then put odd dye patches on her here and there...
>>>
>>> Whaddaya think?  Should I go for it?  /grin/
>>>
>>> Or maybe someone could invent a spray, like that stuff that is supposed
>>> to
>>> keep pets away from certain areas.  In fact, isn't it called "Pet Away?"
>> or
>>> stomething?  Maybe if we sprayed are dogs with anti-human pheromones we
>>> could go about our business in peace? /lol/
>>>
>>> Okay, so my dirty little secret is that I've sort of gotten to enjoy the
>>> attention my poodle gets, now that we've learned to deal and move on.
>>> Unless she's in hussy mode, in which case, I just have to deal until I
>>> can
>>> make a graceful exit or haul out the jaws of life to separate her from
>>> the
>>> bestest friend ever she just made.  /smile/  I figure I can embarrass
>>> myself
>>> enough that I may as well let the dog find ways to embarrass me so long
>>> as
>>> it makes everybody happy...  Sigh.  Maybe it has something to do with
>>> living
>>> in Portland?  Part of me remembers the place as the oversized redneck
>>> town
>>> of my youth; it's fun talking to long-time resident cabbies who remember
>> it
>>> the same way.  But in the past (I will not admit how many) years, it's
>>> grown
>>> and changed along and now it's sort of...  Funky? Funny? Kind of getting
>> to
>>> be cosmopolitan but with a super progressive political bent and a strong
>>> flavor of small-town friendliness.  It can make going out and about a
>>> lot
>>> of
>>> fun, in a funy, weird way.
>>>
>>> So long as one remembers to take into account the growing number of
>>> homeless
>>> people with dogs of uncertain temperament downtown...  That population
>>> has
>>> grown over the past few years, and while the scary dogs we've passed
>>> have
>>> been kept under control by their ragged and dirty humans, it seems to
>>> take
>>> a
>>> lot of effort from the human to keep the dog from going for my sweet
>>> precious.  Yikes!  Still, with the housing situation here, as in so many
>>> places, it's to be expected.  Sigh.  Otherwise, though, Portland is a
>>> pretty
>>> cool place.
>>>
>>> You just don't stand a prayer of going more than five steps without
>> someone
>>> saying something about your dog.  /grin/
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:05 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>
>>> What if we all got the ugliest dogs imaginable? Do you think that would
>> cut
>>> down on the petting distractions?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marsha Drenth
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:39 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>
>>> Now here is where I have seen a improvement. My husband purchased me a
>> sign
>>> for my pup for the harness for Christmas, and she has been wearing it
>>> since.
>>> Granted not all that long. But I have had only one person try to pet my
>> pup
>>> since. I don't think this person could read, and most likely had other
>>> disabilities. Before, I had so many people try to pet her. I was trying
>> and
>>> just dreaded going places because of the number of people who wanted to
>> pet
>>> her. So in my situation, the sign has definetly worked wonders!
>>>
>>> JMO
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:43 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs was guide dogs
>>>
>>> I don't think the signs make any difference anyway.
>>>
>>> I have a sign on Monty's harness that says "Please don't pet me I'm
>>> working".  For folks who have difficulty with words there is also a
>> picture
>>> of a hand reaching to pet a dog with a giant red slash through it.
>>> You'd
>>> think people would get the hint, but they don't. I have noticed
>>> absolutely
>>> no difference in the amount of petafiles since I started with the sign.
>>>
>>> Just today I had some guy reach out to pet Monty just as we're getting
>>> ready
>>>
>>> to cross the street of all things.  He explained that he had been
>>> petting
>>> the dog in training on the college campus earlier.  As if that made it
>> okay
>>> or something.  Torks me.  But Monty got my revenge, he backed up and
>>> gave
>>> the death ray eyeball look.  LOL  Go Monty!
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Meghan" <meghan at n-republic.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>>
>>>
>>> > No, they don't give you a sign for the harness, but you get cards that
>>> you
>>>
>>> > can hand out.
>>> >
>>> > They make it clear that they discourage petting, but they advise you
>>> on
>>> > how to approach it if you are going to allow it, too.
>>> >
>>> > Hope that helps,
>>> > Meghan
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Jennifer L Finley" <jenniferfinley at embarqmail.com>
>>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:28 PM
>>> > Subject: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Does the seeing eye have the please don't pet me signs?  Do they use
>>> >> anything to let the public know to not pet the dog?
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeanette Beal
>> MS.Ed Assistive Technology
>> Independent Consultant
>> Boston, MA 02115
>> bealjk at gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/bealjk
>> http://bealjk.tumblr.com/
>>
>> "Talent is an invention like phlogiston after the fact of fire" - Marge
>> Piercy
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> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net 





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