[nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street

Wed Mar 24 00:49:31 UTC 2010

Albert,
    So, what does the DOJ have to say and what is their jurisdiction over 
state traffic code?

Marion Gwizdala


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street


>I have already called the department of justice and got a read on the law.
> but I am curious, when you speak it seems to allude to the national tenor 
> of
> the law, which is why I asked if you had any references  or citations to
> support your position. I am interested in learning what and where you do
> your research in the event mine is found to be in error. Going to a local
> counsel to support your thoughts on the subject would not clarify the 
> points
> made herein.  So if you have any such citations I would truly appreciate
> learning from them.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of David Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:43 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
> A local lawyer should be able to find you some for your jurisdiction.
>
> David
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
> So would either of you have a specific case you could site in this 
> instance
> so
> as to clarify this point you both make? It could certainly shed some well
> needed
> light on the subject at hand.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing
> it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> David Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:41 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
> Well, not exactly, Albert.
>
> Case law, or precedent, is as much a part of the law as statutes are.  Our
> law
> is based upon the Common Law of England and Common Law is the law of what
> rules
> were established by courts in other cases with similar facts.  It is not 
> so
> much
> a simple interpretation, but rather the application of rules established 
> in
> cases with similar facts.  The role of the lawyer is to present his or her
> facts
> in a way that will be arguably similar to cases where a rule favorable to
> his
> client has been established.  So, no, these rules are not just
> interpretations
> done on the fly, they are actual, real rules of law that can have the same
> effect as rules established by statutes.  They are just as much, the law.
>
> As Marion and I have both noted, one can have a good conscience and
> contribute
> negligently to damages in an accident.  The Ipod listening cane-carrier
> would be
> one example.  I can be walking with an unprotected knife in my pocket and
> contribute negligently to being badly cut when wrongly bumped in a cross
> walk
> while walking with the light and carrying a cane.  True, had the driver 
> not
> been
> negligent, I would not have been hurt at all, but absent my negligence I
> might
> not have been cut.  My contribution to my damage may or may not be 
> relevant,
> depending upon the case law and statutory law of that jurisdiction. 
> Again,
> in
> tort law we don't necessarily get a free pass by being 'legally' within 
> our
> rights.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:14 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
> Yes but the law as written does not include such considerations  that is 
> up
> to
> the interpretation  and presentation of the case in court. I am just 
> wanting
> to
> be clear that your interpretation  though in the best interests of our
> peers, is
> just an interpretation of the law and not a factual component of the law. 
> we
> could as litigators and theorists  provide any number of instances where
> someone
> might contribute to the problem, but in that instance where a blind
> pedestrian
> steps off a curb, in good conscience following said laws and crossing at 
> the
> proper intersection in the proper cross walk and is struck down by a 
> driver
> not
> yielding the right of way as required by law, can you tell me where one
> might
> find a possible contribution to the accident on the part of the 
> pedestrian?
>
>
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>
> CEO/Founder
>
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>
> New York, New York  10004
>
> www.myblindspot.org
>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>
> Fax: 212-858-5759
>
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing
> it."
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> David Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
>
>
> Albert, statutes generally do not cite case law.  Contributory negligence 
> is
> a
>
> concept that is most often a child of case law (although not always).  It 
> is
>
> often a figurative reference as well, in that it often governs the thought
>
> processes of triers of fact.  I think that Marion's and my 'reductio ad
>
> absurdum' examples pretty well explain how a blind person can be
> contributorily
>
> negligent both in law in some jurisdictions and in fact in virtually all 
> of
>
> them.   It is generally what we think of as 'common sense'.  It would, for
>
> example, be hard to see how a blind person carrying a cane who knowingly
> crosses
>
> a busy street while listening to loud rock music on an Ipod would not be
>
> negligently contributing to his or her own injuries.  A trier of fact,
>
> regardless of what statutes are in place, is going to be straining to 
> visit
>
> some, if not all, responsibility for any resulting injury upon that
> pedestrian.
>
> A person who did not stop for the white cane in that circumstance would
> likely
>
> escape both criminal and tort liability, unless he or she had also run a 
> red
>
> light at a cross walk.  Even then, the Ipod listening cane-carrier, could 
> be
>
> apportioned some blame in tort litigation.  In negligence law one is
> generally
>
> required to exercise due care even when another is not.  Stepping off the
> curb
>
> with a white can is not a free pass regardless of how the statute reads.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
>
> Albert J Rizzi
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:17 AM
>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
>
>
> I have done that previously. Would you please provide verbiage wherein it
>
> specifically and clearly states as you have here, that the blind person 
> can
> be
>
> contributory negligent. I sent Wisconsin , Florida and I think Wyoming
> statutes.
>
> Would like to see your references to see how I might be able to sway my
> thoughts
>
> and opinions  on the subject at hand.
>
>
>
>
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>
> CEO/Founder
>
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>
> New York, New York  10004
>
> www.myblindspot.org
>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>
> Fax: 212-858-5759
>
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing
>
> it."
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
>
> Marion Gwizdala
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:46 AM
>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
>
>
> Albert,
>
>    Would you please send us the texts of at least two of these statutes to
>
> which you rfer?
>
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
> Marion
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:25 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick 
> street
>
>
>
>
>
>> With all do respect I read the law a little differently. The ones I
>> sent,
>
>> legally preclude any responsibility  for said accident on anyone other
>
>> then
>
>> the sighted driver. That is not to say that the blind person could
>> have
>
>> contributed to the matter due to any number of reasons, but the law as
>> I
>
>> interpret it  does not at all consider contribution on the part of the
>
>> blind
>
>> pedestrian to the problem. Onus is on the driver  or so it seems to me.
>
>>
>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>
>> CEO/Founder
>
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>
>> New York, New York  10004
>
>> www.myblindspot.org
>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who is
>
>> doing it."
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>
>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:01 PM
>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>
>> street
>
>>
>
>> Albert,
>
>>    This law serves to not assign contributory megligence only based
>> upon
>
>> blindness. In other words, an attorney cannot argue that a person's
>
>> blindness was a contribitor the a crash. It does not, however,
>> preclude
>
>> assigning contributory negligence if it can be shown that the blind
>> person
>
>> was negligent by not using due caution. If a blind person steps out in
>
>> front
>
>>
>
>> of a moving vehicle that cannot be stopped , it does not excuse such
>
>> behavior.
>
>>
>
>> Fraternally yours,
>
>> Marion
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:51 AM
>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>
>> street
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>> MARION, I AM NOT SURE THAT YOUR STATEMENT IS COMPLETELY CORRECT IN
>>> THIS
>
>>> REGARD. AFTER RESEARCH IT SEEMS THAT MANY STATES HAVE AMENDED THIS
>>> LAW TO
>
>>> PRECLUDE THE BLIND FROM BEING CONTRIBITORILY NEGLAGENT OR RESPONSIBLE
>>> IN
>
>>> SOME WAY FOR HAVING BEEN HIT. I HAVE FOUND THESE REFERENCES ONE OF
>>> WHICH
>
>>> I
>
>>> THINK IS FROM A SOUTHERN STATE AND THE OTHER IS WISCONSIN. SO IT
>>> SEEMS TO
>
>>> VARY FROM STATE TO STATE. IT WOULD BE GOOD TO FOLLOW THE LEAD OF
>
>>> WISCONSIN
>
>>> FOR SURE IF WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE IN YOUR STATE. WE SHOULD HAVE
>>> ONE
>
>>> CONSISTANT AND CONSTANT LAW FROM STATE TO STATE FOR THOSE OF us who
>
>>> travel
>
>>> across our country,
>
>>>
>
>>> PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAW
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> White Cane Law 752.52 Sec. 2.(1) A driver of a vehicle shall not
>>> approach
>
>>> a
>
>>> crosswalk..., or any other pedestrian crossing without taking all
>
>>> necessary
>
>>> precautions to avoid accident or injury to a blind pedestrian
>>> carrying a
>
>>> cane or using a guide dog.
>
>>> (2) A driver who approaches a crosswalk or any other pedestrian
>>> crossing
>
>>> without taking all necessary precautions to avoid accident or injury
>>> to a
>
>>> blind pedestrian carrying a cane or using a guide dog shall be liable
>>> in
>
>>> damages for any injuries caused the blind pedestrian...
>
>>> 752.53 Sec. 3. A person who violates section 2(1) is guilty of a
>
>>> misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or
>>> by
>
>>> a
>
>>> fine of not more than $100.00 or both.
>
>>>
>
>>> Then there is Wisconsin:
>
>>>
>
>>> Blind pedestrian on highway.
>
>>>
>
>>> 1) An operator of a vehicle shall stop the vehicle before approaching
>
>>> closer
>
>>> than 10 feet to a pedestrian who is carrying a cane or walking stick
>
>>> which
>
>>> is white in color or white trimmed with red and which is held in an
>
>>> extended
>
>>> or raised position or who is using a dog guide and shall take such
>
>>> precautions as may be necessary to avoid accident or injury to the
>
>>> pedestrian. The fact that the pedestrian may be violating any of the
>>> laws
>
>>> applicable to pedestrians does not relieve the operator of a vehicle
>>> from
>
>>> the duties imposed by this subsection.
>
>>>
>
>>> 2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to deprive any totally
>>> or
>
>>> partially blind person not carrying the white or the red and white
>>> cane
>
>>> or
>
>>> walking stick or not using a dog guide of the rights of other
>>> pedestrians
>
>>> crossing highways, nor shall the failure of such totally or partially
>
>>> blind
>
>>> pedestrian to carry such cane or walking stick or to use a dog guide
>>> be
>
>>> evidence of any negligence.
>
>>>
>
>>> 3) No person who is not totally or partially blind shall carry or use
>>> on
>
>>> any
>
>>> street, highway or other public place any cane or walking stick which
>>> is
>
>>> white in color, or white trimmed with red.
>
>>>
>
>>> Last Revised: February 22, 2010
>
>>>
>
>>> And then there is the Florida statute. No where does it lay claim to
>>> a
>
>>> blind
>
>>> person and their negligence, on the contrary, it goes as far as to
>>> assert
>
>>> that anywhere a blind person steps off a curb to cross a street puts
>>> the
>
>>> burden of responsibility solely in the lap of the driver.
>
>>>
>
>>> White Cane Law: 316.1301  Traffic regulations to assist blind persons
>
>>> (1)  It is unlawful for any person, unless totally or partially blind
>>> or
>
>>> otherwise incapacitated, while on any public street or highway, to
>>> carry
>
>>> in
>
>>> a raised or extended position a cane or walking stick which is white
>>> in
>
>>> color or white tipped with red. A person who is convicted of a
>>> violation
>
>>> of
>
>>> this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree,
>
>>> punishable
>
>>> as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
>
>>>
>
>>> (2)  Whenever a pedestrian is crossing, or attempting to cross, a
>>> public
>
>>> street or highway, guided by a dog guide or carrying in a raised or
>
>>> extended
>
>>> position a cane or walking stick which is white in color or white
>>> tipped
>
>>> with red, the driver of every vehicle approaching the intersection or
>
>>> place
>
>>> where the pedestrian is attempting to cross shall bring his or her
>
>>> vehicle
>
>>> to a full stop before arriving at such intersection or place of
>>> crossing
>
>>> and, before proceeding, shall take such precautions as may be
>>> necessary
>
>>> to
>
>>> avoid injuring such pedestrian. A person who is convicted of a
>>> violation
>
>>> of
>
>>> this subsection is guilty of a moving violation punishable as
>>> provided in
>
>>> chapter 318.
>
>>>
>
>>> (3)  Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to deprive
>>> any
>
>>> totally or partially blind or otherwise incapacitated person not
>>> carrying
>
>>> such a cane or walking stick, or not being guided by a dog, of the
>>> rights
>
>>> and privileges conferred by law upon pedestrians crossing streets or
>
>>> highways. The failure of any such person to carry a cane or walking
>>> stick
>
>>> or
>
>>> to be guided by a dog shall not be considered comparative negligence,
>>> nor
>
>>> shall such failure be admissible as evidence in the trial of any
>>> civil
>
>>> action with regard to negligence.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> I would like to see the law you are referencing here in the hopes we
>
>>> could
>
>>> amend the one you are relying on, peace.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>
>>> CEO/Founder
>
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>
>>> New York, New York  10004
>
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who
>
>>> is
>
>>> doing it."
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>
>>> Behalf
>
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:34 AM
>
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>
>>> street
>
>>>
>
>>> Dan,
>
>>>    One scenario in which a blind person could have been at fault in
>>> such
>
>>> a
>
>>> crash is if the blind person stepped out in front of the vehicle and
>>> the
>
>>> operator was unable to avoid the crash! The White Cane Law does not
>>> give
>
>>> us
>
>>> carte blanche to cross an intersection at any time nor absolve us
>>> from
>
>>> any
>
>>> responsibilities for our safe travel!
>
>>>
>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:19 PM
>
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>
>>> street
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> How exactly would the blind person be responsible in this accident,
>>>> what
>
>>>> about our trusty White Cane Law.
>
>>>> The fact that no one complies with the law doesn't mean that lack of
>
>>>> compliance isn't a criminal act.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Dan W. and the Carter Dog
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>
>>>> nagdu:
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
>
>>> t
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
>>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>
>>> org
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
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>>
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>> t
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
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