[nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Wed Mar 24 13:33:09 UTC 2010
You see how your sardonic approach colors your thoughts herein? We are not
any of us speaking about stepping into traffic at any other point other then
at a corner or designated pedestrian cross way. you are making this
personal and as president I would think again despite the very real
possibility of any pedestrian being hit in a cross walk inspite of the laws
on the books, that you would discuss things from a position of truth and
empowerment rather then creating a fear as it is seeming to be done in this
thread.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:02 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
Jewel,
My message may have sounded a bit sardonic; perhaps that was my
intention! As for the technique of extending the white cane at an arm's
length, I am sure that this law was not written by an expert in the field of
Orientation & Mobility instruction, but by a legislature that has no clue
about how blind people travel safely. You can try this technique, but I
believe the outcome would be the same as my suggestion to Albert. I believe
one needs to find a signal-controlled intersection and cross with the flow
of traffic.
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
> Marion,
> Can we keep it a little more civil, please? Telling someone to go step
> into traffic is not very nice, and it sounds a little bit (if not a
> lot) sardonic.
>
> I don't think Albert is saying that drivers should stop on a dime, but
> if I extend my cane at arm's length at a crosswalk, wait a minute, and
> then step out, I think I should be reasonably able to assume that the
> cars have had enough time to come to a full stop in a pedestrian-heavy
> area where the speed limit is *supposed* to be 25 mph anyway. For a
> street with faster speeds, I should reasonably assume that I need to
> extend my cane for a longer time to give cars more time to come to a
> full stop. Obviously, a car going at 50 mph is not going to be able to
> stop in a minute's notice, but if I extend my cane for 3 minutes, that
> should give cars enough time to notice my cane and stop. As for
> highways...well, I wouldn't even consider attempting this yielding
> rule on a highway...I'd soon be roadkill!
>
> No one is saying that all cars must come to a full stop as soon as a
> blind pedestrian comes to the curb. Blind pedestrians can find the
> curb, and are expected to give fair warning to drivers. But once the
> pedestrian is at the crossing and gives warning, the cars should all
> stop and give right-of-way to the pedestrian. This is the law (at
> least in NC), and should be followed, though it isn't at this time. I
> hope to correct that, at least in the state's capital where I live.
>
> Let's try to all remain civil and friendly, and if we disagree and
> can't agree, like Alfred said, agree to disagree and go on with life.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 3/23/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Albert,
>> I have an idea! Go to a busy intersection in new York City and step
>> out
>> into traffic! Let us know how you fare in court, if you are alive to
>> fare!
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>> street
>>
>>
>>> Maybe we should just agree to disagree. I am not inclined to follow your
>>> line of thinking here especially when laws such as the ones on the books
>>> in
>>> many states require a car to stop the moment a blind person steps into
>>> the
>>> road, I have seen that even if the blind person neglected to use his
>>> cane
>>> or
>>> dog and should for whatever reason fly solo, this would not preclude a
>>> driver from taking responsibility to stop and allow the pedestrian to
>>> pass.
>>> So, it seems we are going to agree to disagree here,
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:03 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>>> street
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>> As you stated, drivers should use "due caution" to avoid striking a
>>> pedestrian. At the same time, if that pedestrian - whether blind or
>>> sighted - is crossing against the light and is struck or in any other
>>> way
>>> causes a traffic crash, such a pedestrian may likely be party to a law
>>> suit
>>> to recover damages resulting from the crash. The only thing I see in the
>>> laws that I have read is that the failure of a blind person to use a
>>> cane
>>> or
>>>
>>> guide dog cannot be used to assign a portion of the contributory
>>> negligence.
>>>
>>> Other than that fact, the negligence of a blind person to observe other
>>> laws
>>>
>>> pertaining to safe pedestrian travel can be used to assign a person's
>>> contribution to the incident that causes the damages being recovered.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>>> street
>>>
>>>
>>>> No, not unless and until there are audible crossing signs to allow for
>>>> our
>>>> choice to ignore said signage and then perhaps only then could I see a
>>>> lawyer attempting to make that case. However, an elementary glance at
>>>> the
>>>> laws as they pertain to pedestrians of all abilities make the drivers
>>>> responsible for taking all actions to avoid hitting a pedestrian. Now,
>>>> how
>>>> all that would play out in court should it go that far is only to be
>>>> decided
>>>> in a court room. But first and foremost, blind or not the laws as
>>>> written
>>>> require that all drivers yield the right of way to a pedestrian, unless
>>>> that
>>>> is a specific law includes guidelines pointing out specifically that a
>>>> drivers responsibility is waived if a pedestrian crosses against the
>>>> light.
>>>> I have yet to see any statute expressly making such a statement. If you
>>>> can
>>>> find one share it here could make the discussion a little more
>>>> interesting.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Dan Weiner
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:09 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
>>>> street
>>>>
>>>> , a hypothetical question, guys.
>>>> Now, whether we like to admit it or now, all of us have crossed against
>>>> the
>>>> light at least once.
>>>> There's no moving traffic, or the cars turn in strange ways or
>>>> something.
>>>> So, if we cross against the light, but not deliberately in to traffic,
>>>> what
>>>> would be the implications of that?
>>>> Would you then say that we have partial responsibility?
>>>>
>>>> Dan W. and the big boy, Carter
>>>>
>>>>
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