[nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

Well said!  Disucssing the theory, the written law, the difference between
case law and the application of the written law, and so on and on does have
value.  Then again, I'm perverse enough that I actually enjoy listening in
on heated arguments between intelligent strong-willed individuals, even when
in they're in the same room yelling and waving their arms. /grin/  I have
friends with whom I cheerfully do the same thing, I'm afraid.  /grin/  Some
of them have opposing and adamant opposite points of view from me.  Some of
them are in total agreement, but just for fun we agree heatedly, with raised
voices and arm waiving and everything.  Not everyone's taste, but I guess
I'm just that kind of girl. /evil grin/

For a public discussion, I believe we all need to increase our understanding
and to express it.  On the legal vs. philosophical vs. practical issues, I
have nothing to add or subtract.  I can only make second by second decisions
to maintain my own safety and hope to, well, whatever one chooses to hope to
at the time, that I don't screw up when it's me and Mitzi vs. a moving hunk
of metal.  Even if we're legally, morally, or on whatever basis in the
right, we lose.

For NAGDU as a whole, as an organization as well as a collection of
individuals with a strong common interest, I do believe it is important to 

Your question is very valid, since sooner or later we can almost guarantee
it will come up in a court of law -- if it hasn't already.

I'm also with you in not wanting to be the one who gets to find out the end
result!  Or to have anyeone I know end up being that test case.  While I
can't claim legal expertise, I did spend enough time working in law offices
-- with extensive law libraries -- that this compulsive reader has read more
actual case law than she needed to.  It is very, very easy to forget in the
reading of either written law or the case law based upon it, that there are
real people involved.  Sad, but true.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:14 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street

I wonder though if a cane user might fair better in a legal case i.e.
the dog wasn't/didn't do his job, but the person with the cane couldn't
have known about the car? 
Interesting question, and as Dan says, let's hope we all only discuss
this on a theoretical level.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:50 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
street

I agree with you totally, Albert.
I was bringing up that scenario because I wouldn't put it past some law
enforcement people who might not be acquainted with blind travel
techniques
to say that type of thing.
I, especially in my first months as a guide dog user, had several
crossing
against the light incidents  after  which I was told by nasty
bystanders, ,
"your dog's badly trained, he crossed you against the light, you should
get
another one".
This business of thinking that a guide dog reads traffic, this old
wives'
tale has been one of the most annoying things I've dealt with as a guide
dog
user.

Once I was talking to a police officer I know from the neighborhood
about
the White Cane Law, and he asked "well, wouldn't your dog keep you safe
and
not let you cross when a car's coming".
We all know that the answer to that one is more complicated than "yes "
or
"no" because it's you and your well-trained dog against someone behind
of
the wheel of a big metal machine.
Anyway, it took me a few minutes to really explain to this very nice
officer
that cars are required to give thee right of way and my dog's training
wouldn't make me responsible if something happened 
Because my dog didn't "do his job" in quotations.

Now, having said all of this, let's hope that all of us will only have
to
discusses this hypothetically.  Take care of yourselves, two-legged and
four-legged friends.

Dan and Carter 
-----Original M


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