[nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Thu Mar 25 18:02:16 UTC 2010
I'd like to know mor about the NFB car. How will it function?
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
Okay now here is a situation the NFB is so into making a car that is
drivable for the blind, then what happens if a blind person driving hit
a blind person walking.
I think its an interesting thing the NFB wants to make a car that is
accessible, but we should make sure the roads are safe before we get
behind the wheel of the car.
We all know that in 2011 in orlando we will be able to test drive this
car right, I wont be doing it. I get nervous enough on the road now in
the car with my husband who is the safest person I know.
Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Travel Consultant
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574
http://blog.echevarriatravel.com<http://blog.echevarriatravel.com/>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.c
om>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
I for one am in agreement with many here in that audible signs or ATS
are
not alone on their own the only tool a pedestrian should use. All of
us must
and do use our collective senses to navigate and determine the safest
time
to proceed in any regard. But the more options we have the better. the
real
problem here is drivers not following laws and yielding to
pedestrians as
the law requires..
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jewel S.
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:23 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
I agree with Albert. APPs do not imply that blind people cannot safely
cross streets. It allows pedestrians (sighted or blind) one more cue
as to when it is their turn to cross. Sometimes it is hard for a
sighted person to see a crosswalk signal because of the sun or hanging
branches or something, so it is good for that, too.
Audible signals in Raleigh have provided me with some great landmarks,
too. In areas where there are a few well-placed audibles, but not at
every intersection, it has helped me get unlost, know how far I have
walked, and cross very heavy traffic streets like Hillsborough Street,
where we are given less than a minute to cross, so I cannot hesitate
for even a second, but must cross the minute the light changes and the
audible sounds.
Now, I wonder...can guide dogs be trained to cross with audibles?
*giggle* I know, I know, we have to know when to cross, not our guide
dogs, but it's just a thought and a funny.
~Jewel
On 3/25/10, Albert J Rizzi
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>> wrote:
> I do not agree here. I see them as an additional cue which would
otherwise
> be there if we had usable vision.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Lyens
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:00 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>
> Albert,
>
> Requiring aps implies blind people cannot safely cross streets. This
> is simply untrue, blind people show this everyday and have for many
> years.
>
> Seems like the issue is quiet cars. In that case it should fall too
> the manufactorer to produce a safe product. When unsafe products are
> sold, they're supposed to be recalled.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2010, at 6:52 AM, "Albert J Rizzi"
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
> wrote:
>
>> That is exactly the point I was hoping to make Tracey, when I
>> responded to
>> Jule. It is another tool in the arsenal of safe pedestrian travel
>> that is
>> for sure. it would also allow the blind pedestrian specifically to
>> know when
>> to cross with the light rather then against it, and give some sense
>> of calm
>> so as to not be as hyper vigilant about listening for cars no one
>> hears.
>> This audible option in our lives would also allow for some of the
>> positions
>> taken in some of the cane laws as written, I think it was David
who
>> shared
>> how he found it effective to extend his white cane in an obvious
>> manner when
>> crossing 6 lanes of traffic. Imagine how effective that technique
if
>> necessary, coupled with an audible sign would make crossing a two
>> lane road
>> or any road for that matter. I give you kudos for making that
happen
>> in your
>> life and your community. More of us need to take your lead.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:22 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>
>> Last year, after years of fighting for it, I got an audible signal
>> put in
>> at a T intersection near my home. It is really helpful. No more
>> mistaking a lull in traffic for having the light, or having to wait
>> for
>> someone to come along and help me. It also tells me just how often
>> people
>> drive through the beginning of the walk signal, or turn when they
are
>> supposed to stop, since it's an all-stop signal.
>> So of course I still have to be cautious, even when I have the
signal.
>> But it is great to know when I actually do have the signal. It's
>> made a
>> real difference in my life.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> Marion,
>>> the audible signal is of course for the pedestrians . the vehicles
>>> already have an effective cue to stop and go. The audible sign
>>> would at
>>> least be a way to combat those hybrid cars with the silent
engines.
>>> if we
>>> were and if all others were able to depend on a reliable audible
>>> signal to
>>> let us know it is ok to cross, coupled with effective pedestrian
>>> laws, the
>>> hybrid cars would only present issues at areas with stop signs and
>>> not at
>>> busy intersections. How did you infer that I suggested the audible
>>> signs
>>> could impact the safe use of a car? The safe driver makes that
>>> choice and
>>> I
>>> have yet to learn about a device that could ensure a drivers safe
>>> operation
>>> of a vehicle.
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
one
>>> who is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:48 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>> Audible traffic signals have absolutely no effect on the safe
>>> operation
>>> of a vehicle. Now, in St. Petersburg, Florida, they have a pretty
>>> good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> They have a pedestrian crossing sign near the trafic signal. When
a
>>> pedestrian activates the crosswalk signal, a yellow light flashes
>>> within
>>> the
>>>
>>> sign to alert the driver that a pedestrian is crossing.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:07 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>
>>>
>>>> Now in reaction to the hybrid cars which are environmentally
>>>> friendly
>>>> and
>>>> very quiet, why are we not mobilizing the forces to require that
>>>> urban
>>>> planners and departments of roads or transportation or what ever
>>>> department
>>>> it is that regulates crossing signs start using audible crossing
>>>> signs
>>>> as
>>>> is
>>>> done in many European cities. I hear tell of how the
>>>> infrastructure is
>>>> to
>>>> old and to costly to work with, yet I would think that Paris and
>>>> London
>>>> are
>>>> much older cities then any of ours and they some how were able to
>>>> bridge
>>>> that gap. Would be another great focus of our community to work
>>>> together
>>>> to
>>>> effect if you ask me.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>>>> one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jewel S.
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:33 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>
>>>> Here, here!
>>>>
>>>> I have been hit by a car, albeit a very slow moving car, so I was
>>>> not
>>>> injured very much at all. The car was backing out of a parking
spot
>>>> after telling me to go ahead. He didn't look where he was going,
and
>>>> his bumper struck me before I knew what was going on. I beat the
>>>> trunk
>>>> with my cane and shouted at him, trying to scuttle out of the way
>>>> (not
>>>> easy for me), but he would not stop. I would have fallen if
someone
>>>> hadn't run up and caught me and another man knocked on the
driver's
>>>> window, the idiot. I told them to get the license plate number,
but
>>>> they did not. I was very upset. This was also a quiet car.
>>>>
>>>> The Quiet Car Bill is something I have been watching very
closely.
>>>> It
>>>> is almost passed through to law. It is getting sooo close. When
it
>>>> does pass, the government will be required to do a survery and
>>>> figure
>>>> out a way for quiet cars to produce the sound needed by
pedestrians.
>>>>
>>>> I am very sorry about the loss of your guide dog, friend, and the
>>>> injury of your other friend. Your story is one of the many very
real
>>>> reasons why the White Cane Laws were ut in place in the first
place,
>>>> to save lives.
>>>>
>>>> How many lives must be taken before the laws are enforced?
>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>
>>>> On 3/24/10, Albert J Rizzi
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>> wrote:
>>>>> Here here!
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>>>>> one who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:07 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>
>>>>> Tracy,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm so sorry! I didn't know that had happened to you. It must
>>>>> have
>>>>> been
>>>>> awful for a long, long time after the fact. And I'm sure
whatever
>>>> recourse
>>>>> you received was not worth the loss. I'm glad you're well and
>>>>> still
>>>> living
>>>>> your life.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I am glad the white cane laws and pedestrian laws
>>>>> underlying them
>>>>> do
>>>>> give me some added rights and protections. Greater awareness
and
>>>>> greater
>>>>> enforcement does and will give us better odds of traveling
safely
>>>>> through
>>>>> our daily lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> There will still be those people who disengage brain before
turning
>>>>> key,
>>>> but
>>>>> the more drivers who are aware of the law, of their
>>>>> responsibilities as
>>>>> drivers, and of the consequences of their not taking their
>>>> responsibilities
>>>>> seriously when they're behind the wheel, the better off we'll
all
>>>>> be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:23 AM
>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>
>>>>> Could we possibly get back to discussing better enforcement of
>>>>> White
>>>>> Cane
>>>>> laws, and drop all the sniping? Or is it the concensus that the
>>>>> White
>>>>> Cane laws are outmoded, and we should just let them drop and
ignore
>>>>> them?
>>>>> I'm not asking for someone else to be responsible for my safety,
>>>>> but I
>>>>> am
>>>>> asking that the drivers take their share of responsibility.
They
>>>>> are
>>>>> the
>>>>> ones in charge of the vehicle that is a lot faster and heavier
>>>>> than I
>>>>> am.
>>>>> I am especially concerned with new quieter cars becoming more
>>>>> common.
>>>>> I've lost count of the times my dog has stopped short, then I've
>>>>> heard
>>>>> the
>>>>> car whizzing by in front of us.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally know 3 people who've been hit. One was crossing
>>>>> with the
>>>>> light when a bus turned on top of her, and she was killed. One
was
>>>>> crossing a quiet street, when some old fool came speeding around
a
>>>>> blind
>>>>> corner and hit her. Now she has to use a wheelchair. And one
>>>>> was me,
>>>>> trying to cross a street to get home during an ice storm. There
>>>>> wasn't
>>>>> enough traffic, and there wasn't anyone around to ask, and I
>>>>> probably
>>>>> misjudged the traffic light. My dog was killed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of these accidents could have been avoided, if the driver
were
>>>>> paying
>>>>> propper attention. We have laws on the books that say they
>>>>> should be
>>>>> particularly careful when a blind pedestrian is in the street.
I'd
>>>>> like
>>>>> to see greater awareness of those laws. It doesn't seem so much
to
>>>>> ask,
>>>>> to save a life.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbne
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>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
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