[nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

Sun Mar 28 05:31:57 UTC 2010

Hey, Linda, I've been busted!  (GRIN!) I know I've been guilty of wondering
why someone with some vision has a dog myself. I think it kind of goes back
to understanding what a person does and doesn't see again. On the other
hand, I've also defended other people who I know and understand their
situation who have dogs and have some vision, too. I'm curious if since you
have some vision, if it's beneficial to train with your dog with a
blindfold, much like when people do cane travel with a blindfold. Does a
blindfold help you gain the trust of your dog so you don't depend on your
vision as much? Somehow, I think the dogs seem to have a sense that they are
or aren't needed and I've seen people try to continue to use that little bit
of vision and end up confusing themselves and the dog in some situations. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:34 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

Hi all,
Sometimes I see totals begrudging the partials their sight.  I've seen this
with partials using guide dogs.  the total will say something like, "So and
So has too much vision so they shouldn't be using a guide dog."  I tell them
that thoise of us partials who use dogs have enough of a vision ;loss to
warrent guide dog use. I have tunnel vision and miss everything that isn't
exactly where my eye happens to be pointed at - I miss alot that way. 
Also, I have no vision at night or in dark places.  And, the guide dog
schools won't give a dog to someone with too much sight to use the dog
properly.

There seems to be this hierarchy much like with blacks.  The lightskinned
people are somehow "better" than dark skinned people. Partials are also
"better" than totals.  I saw this among  my friends who wwent to blind
schools.

I think blind people get judged on mobility skills because that's what the
public sees most.  they don't see you cook or keep house.  But they see you
on the street.  They think a cane touching stuff means that the person can't
travel well - as if the cane will magically steer one around objects!  They
think we are lost when we are listening to the envirnment to gain our
bearings.

Also, we get judged by the actions of a blind person. Well, so and so lets
me pet their dog!  Oh, so and so can recognise my voice after hearing it
once.  Or that so and so can do that - why can't you!  That sort of thing.

As a person who has been "legally blind" all my life I've seen alot.  My
vision has deteriorated over the years and I've adapted to that. But you
recent comers to blindness, you come to it after living many years as a
sighted person without any stigma.  You are right toi take offense to the
treatment you get - we hate it, too! (grin!)

Yes, we need to stick together and quit being so critical of each other!  We
can disagree on stuff but I've seen some downright hateful stuff being said
to people over the years and that's not good.

Take care of yourselves, your dogs, and each other!

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

>I think you're right, Julie, and people can be very hard on each other 
>about
> it, too. Sometimes, I've seen dog users really be hard on each other, too,
> even about their dogs and what they can or can't, will or won't do, and
> their behavior in public. I wish we gave each other more cedit for what we
> accomplish than pick on each other for the little things we do different.
> Sometimes people also forget that some of us have other issues than just
> blindness to deal with as well that affect our mobility and travel skills.
> Thinking about it, it strikes me a little funny, we want to be treated as
> individuals by the sighted world, but we fall into expecting ourselves to
> all have the same skill set as a group of blind people when in reality, we
> are all different.
>
> I've observed something that's always been interesting to me as a blind
> person all my life, and that is that sometimes people who have never had
> vision have some pretty amazing ideas about what vision is. Like, that 
> when
> a person sees, they see everything. A sighted person, for example, 
> shouldn't
> trip over something or miss a friend when they're walking down the street 
> or
> miss the spot on the front of their shirt or whatever you want. Somehow if
> you can see you can see it all at all times. I haven't seen myself, but I
> know I've seen this happen in various degrees with different people. If we
> live long enough and associate with enough people, we find out that 
> sighted
> people have their shortcomings, too. (smile!)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Steve Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:11 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
> Hmmm, that is quite the interesting question Julie.  I find myself 
> engaging
> in conversations with my peers many times indeed surrounding that of 
> travel,
> but not necessarily judging them, but maybe rather comparing and 
> contrasting
> our methods of travel when using a guide, cane and then transitioning 
> these
> skills into our everyday routines.  Sometimes, we may also compare our
> employment and how were we were able to achieve a level of
> gainful/meaningful employment, while other times maybe our involvement and
> contributions to the greater blind community.  But all in all, and I am
> looking and thinking of my blind peers primarily involved in our local NFB
> chapter, we tend not to judge, but feed off of each others strengths, and
> become a stronger united group by this.  It is pretty cool to see how this
> concept fosters the leadership that we need within the movement, and 
> somehow
> creates a fairly well-balanced front.
>
> Just my immediate thoughts,
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:27 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
> Some of the recent discussion got me to thinking about how we, as blind
> people, perceive independence or who is more capable than who.   It seems
> that we always use travel to judge who has better skills than who.  I know
> we have discussed this before, but I still have no clue why we don't use
> Braille or cooking or something else to base our judgments on.  I'm guilty
> of it too.  I've caught myself thinking if not actually saying that so and
> so isn't as well adjusted as they could be because they are always needing
> help to get places.
>
> I happen to be a very good traveler with cane or dog.  But you know what? 
> I
> read Braille at about 40 wpm.  By any measure that's slow, like 
> incredibly,
> snails pace slow.  But no one has ever said to me, "You know, you should
> really attend a center where you could get better Braille skills so you
> could be more independent."
>
> Then there is the kitchen...I really like to cook.  Generally I'm okay in
> the kitchen.  I cook most meals from scratch.  But, getting the meat,
> especially the chicken, thoroughly cooked is a constant stress for me. 
> I'm
> frequently freaked out about whether or not there is any pink in the meat.
> I know the skills.  I know how to check nonvisually, but I totally and
> completely lack chicken confidence.
>
> Am I crazy?  or don't you think that blind people always judge other blind
> people on the basis of travel skills and virtually nothing else?
>
> thoughts?
> Julie
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
> urytel.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/caota%40hawaii.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
et 

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/caota%40hawaii.rr.com