[nagdu] Section 501(d)

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Sun Mar 28 09:50:01 UTC 2010


Albert,
    I realize that the horn may have been a poor comparison. Perhaps I 
should have used the example of the engine noise. BTW, this initiative is 
not only being supported by the NFB as a way to assist blind people, it is 
also being supported by advocates in the areas of peddestrian and bicycling 
advocacy. I don't have the research at hand, but the NHTSA has data that 
seems to reveal a higher than average incidence of hybrid vehicles 
involvement  in crashes with pedestrians and bicyclists, so the work of the 
Federation will benefit more than just the blind!

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)


> Yet the horn is not what we are trying to sell here as an assistive
> technology as protected under the ADA. Dance as you might the question 
> from
> an assistive technology standpoint is still asked and unanswered. In your
> last post you spoke of noise that disturbs business owners and such, what 
> of
> the noise you speak of which the car will emit? In the city the noise is
> distracting for sure, but the little chirps are only noticeable ever so
> unobtrusively that I find it hard to understand your point. Again, noise
> from a car, if one is going to sell it as an aid to the blind must be held
> to the same measure you speak of in your ADA reference. If we cannot
> disengage it then just say so. We all know it cannot be done..
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:22 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)
>
> Albert,
>    Perhaps one could disengage the sound a quiet car makes in the same way
> one would disengage the sound a vehicle's horn creates! (smile)
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)
>
>
>> And as I put before, what if someone does not like nor prefer the
>> accommodation of a noise being put into a hybrid car and wants to
>> disengage
>> that? how would we go about doing that in the same vein as presented 
>> here?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:26 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Section 501(d)
>>
>> Section 501
>> (d) Accommodations and Services. Nothing in this Act shall be construed 
>> to
>> require an individual with a disability to accept an accommodation, aid,
>> service,
>>
>> opportunity, or benefit which such individual chooses not to accept.
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 2:49 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] ADA Correction
>>
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>    This is a correction to my earlier message concerning the ADA. I said
>>> Section IV when it should have been Title V. There is a provision  that
>>> clearly states that if a disabled individual deems an accommodation to 
>>> be
>>> inappropriate or unnecessary he/she has the right to refuse such
>>> accommodations. What this would mean is that all audible traffic signals
>>> would be required to be user-activated allowing those who wish to use
>>> them
>>> to do so while respecting the rights of those who find them unnecessary.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Gary and everyone,
>>>
>>>    Provided they're not shoved down the throats of those who choose not
>>> to
>>> use them as specified in Section IV of the ADA. One provision of that
>>> section clearly states that a disabled individual has the ability to
>>> refuse
>>> an accommodation they deem to be unnecessary. If audible traffic signals
>>> are
>>> installed at intersections they must permit one to disable them should
>>> they
>>> choose not to use them. This is in compliance with the above section in
>>> the
>>> ADA. So why spend large sums of money on installing something very few
>>> people would use. Our municipalities have better things to do with 
>>> public
>>> monies than spending it on these things.I'd rather see such funds spent
>>> on
>>> improving access to quality orientation and adjustment training rather
>>> than
>>> APS any day. Blind individuals would not only receive quality travel
>>> training, but they would learn many other valuable blindness skills as
>>> well.
>>> Please keep the big picture in focus.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Gary" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> Of course I agree with the fact that having silent cars create noise and
>>> audible traffic signals are not the same issue.
>>>
>>> First, let me state that I am totally for the  laws being moved forward
>>> to
>>> create sounds in electric silent cars. However, I think that audible
>>> traffic
>>> signals are a great assistance to all people. It is great to say that at
>>> a
>>> four way stop we don't need audible signals but I live in a city where
>>> there
>>> are probably over a 100 audible signals and I certainly believe that 
>>> they
>>> tmake getting around the city much easier especially considering I have
>>> to
>>> often cross six lane roads. Of course I don't blindly start walking
>>> (pardon
>>> the pun) once I hear the signal but as someone stated earlier, I then
>>> know
>>> that the sign says walk. Now it is up to me to use my other senses to be
>>> sure that the intersection is truly safe before I proceed.
>>>
>>> Secondly, when I make my request for audible signals to the city staff,
>>> I'm
>>> not just selling them on the fact that this will allow me, the poor
>>> little
>>> blind man -- not  <chuckle> get out of my house but it willl be of
>>> assistance to many other pedestrians  by stimulating another sense
>>> besides
>>> their sight to inform them that the light has changed. Even drivers may
>>> have
>>> their attention drawn by the sounds.
>>>
>>> I get annoyed by those who try to put up barriers to universal adaptions
>>> that will make my travelling much more informed. I agree that we want to
>>> inform the public that we are not helpless and can cross roads as blind
>>> people but I certainly don't think we need to do that by excluding any
>>> adaptations such as  edge markings on stairs, subway platforms, audible
>>> traffic signals, etc. These are tools that we put into our tool bag to
>>> allow
>>> us to move throughout our community more routinely. Think of the big
>>> movement that happened to get cut curbs for wheelchairs, ramps in to
>>> buildings and accessible washrooms. Is it only people in wheelcharis who
>>> have benefited from these  upgrades? Of course not. Talk to any mother
>>> with
>>> a stroller. The changes we make to allow places to be more accessible in
>>> a
>>> way that assists an individual with a vision problem will help many
>>> others
>>> in society be safer as well. The majority of those losing their sight in
>>> our
>>> society are seniors. If things like wheelchair ramps and audible 
>>> signalls
>>> can make it possible for them to feel safer and be a continued part of
>>> our
>>> community then I think not just the blind are served by these upgrades.
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Michael Hingson
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:46 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>> Ann,
>>>
>>> The difference is that audible signals on the one hand do not add
>>> significant value at standard 4-way stops.  True hearing a sound tells
>>> you
>>> that the walk sign is on.  However, the traffic informs you of that in a
>>> more accurate way without being masked with other sounds which you might
>>> use
>>> to mistakenly tell you that it is safe to cross.  The fact that some 
>>> have
>>> said on this list that the signals tell you when to cross proves the
>>> point.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, the very cue we use to know when it is safe to cross
>>> is
>>> being taken away with silent cars.  It is also being taken away for many
>>> other persons as well.  The very fact that governmental reports now
>>> validate
>>> that more accidents are like due to the silence of silent cars
>>> demonstrates
>>> the value of vehicles making a noise.  Also, the cost to produce this
>>> noise
>>> is not significant even compared to ATS devices.
>>>
>>> ATS do offer aid at intersections where crossing is atypical such as T
>>> intersections and other than the usual 4-way stop.  Again, those signals
>>> do
>>> not say it is safe to cross but they do tell us where to cross safely.
>>>
>>> The fact that the NFB recognizes the value of some audible signals
>>> demonstrates that wisdom will out.  To say that every signal should have
>>> an
>>> audible component is unnecessary and it promulgates the myth that 
>>> without
>>> these signals blind people wouldn't be able to cross a street.  I cannot
>>> tell you the large number of times the installation of an audible signal
>>> has
>>> been publicized on TV with comments like "now sightless people will know
>>> when it is safe to cross the street" or "now blind people will finally 
>>> be
>>> able to cross this street".
>>>
>>> I think there are basic differences between the use of audible signals
>>> and
>>> installing a sound in a silent car.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hingson
>>>
>>>
>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>> (415) 827-4084
>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Ann Edie
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:00 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>> Hi, Jonathan and Everybody,
>>>
>>> I'm a bit puzzled by this discussion of audible traffic signals and
>>> silent
>>> cars.
>>>
>>> On the one hand, the NFB has always been very skeptical of the value of
>>> APS,
>>>
>>> stating that requiring audible signals implies that blind people are not
>>> capable of traveling safely in the sighted world without extensive
>>> adaptations.  On the other hand, the NFB has led in the effort to 
>>> require
>>> that hybrid and electric cars be modified to produce sound so that blind
>>> people can hear them approaching.  If the car manufacturers can be
>>> expected
>>> to produce cars which provide for non-visual access to information--the
>>> presence and speed of the vehicle--then why shouldn't traffic signal
>>> manufacturers be equally responsible for producing signals which provide
>>> non-visual access to the information they are designed to provide--that
>>> is,
>>> the status of the light cycle at anygiven moment?
>>>
>>> Neither the sound produced by cars nor the sound produced by APS in and
>>> of
>>> themselves protects pedestrians or ensures their safety, whether the
>>> pedestrians are sighted or blind.  The sound produced by both cars and
>>> APS
>>> merely provides an additional channel of information about the
>>> environment,
>>> in these cases a very important channel of communication for the blind
>>> pedestrian, because the visual channel is not dependable or operational.
>>> I
>>> find the information provided to me by APS at a local intersection to be
>>> very helpful.  It does not tell me to cross the street; it merely tells
>>> me
>>> that the Walk cycle is active.  It is still my responsibility to check
>>> that
>>> all vehicles which are approaching the intersection are at a stop or are
>>> coming to a stop before I step foot into the street.  I take this
>>> responsibility very seriously, because I have witnessed many cars 
>>> running
>>> this light.  But that is not a good reason for disregarding the
>>> information
>>> about when the Walk sign is lit.  If there were no audible signal at 
>>> this
>>> intersection, it would be very difficult to tell when that Walk cycle
>>> began,
>>>
>>> because the traffic flow is intermittant.  So if I waited until all was
>>> quiet and then started to cross, I might very well be crossing at a 
>>> point
>>> when the Walk signal was not lit.  And if any accident were to happen
>>> under
>>> such circumstances, I might very well be judged to have been negligent
>>> for
>>> stepping into the street at the wrong point in the cycle.  Besides, I do
>>> not
>>>
>>> want to become a statistic, no matter how much in the right I might be 
>>> in
>>> my
>>>
>>> decision of when to cross a street.
>>>
>>> For me, it's all about accessible information.  Not all of the
>>> information
>>> is necessary all of the time for every individual.  But all of it is
>>> absolutely vital to some of the people at some time.  Information is 
>>> only
>>> useful if coupled with a rational brain.  But without the information,
>>> even
>>> the most powerful and rational of brains cannot make informed decisions
>>> and
>>> considered judgements.
>>>
>>> Wishing you all safe and happy travels.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ann
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>
>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>>
>>>> Requiring aps implies blind people cannot safely cross streets. This 
>>>> is
>>>> simply untrue, blind people show this everyday and have for many 
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like the issue is quiet cars. In that case it should fall too 
>>>> the
>>>> manufactorer to produce a safe product. When unsafe products are  sold,
>>>> they're supposed to be recalled.
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 25, 2010, at 6:52 AM, "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is exactly the point I was hoping to make Tracey, when I
>>>>> responded
>>>>> to
>>>>> Jule. It is another tool in the arsenal of safe pedestrian travel 
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> for sure. it would also allow the blind pedestrian specifically to
>>>>> know
>>>>> when
>>>>> to cross with the light rather then against it, and give some sense 
>>>>> of
>>>>> calm
>>>>> so as to not be as hyper vigilant about listening for cars no one
>>>>> hears.
>>>>> This audible option in our lives would also allow for some of the
>>>>> positions
>>>>> taken in some of the  cane laws as written, I think it was David who
>>>>> shared
>>>>> how he found it effective to extend his white cane in an obvious
>>>>> manner
>>>>> when
>>>>> crossing 6 lanes of traffic. Imagine how effective that technique if
>>>>> necessary, coupled with an audible sign would make crossing a two 
>>>>> lane
>>>>> road
>>>>> or any road for that matter. I give you kudos for making that happen
>>>>> in
>>>>> your
>>>>> life and your community. More of us need to take your lead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:22 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>>>
>>>>> Last year, after years of fighting for it, I got an audible signal 
>>>>> put
>>>>> in
>>>>> at a T intersection near my home.  It is really helpful.  No more
>>>>> mistaking a lull in traffic for having the light, or having to wait
>>>>> for
>>>>> someone to come along and help me.  It also tells me just how often
>>>>> people
>>>>> drive through the beginning of the walk signal, or turn when they are
>>>>> supposed to stop, since it's an all-stop signal.
>>>>> So of course I still have to be cautious, even when I have the signal.
>>>>> But it is great to know when I actually do have the signal.  It's 
>>>>> made
>>>>> a
>>>>> real difference in my life.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>> the audible signal is of course for the pedestrians . the vehicles
>>>>>> already have an effective cue to stop and go. The audible sign  would
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least be a way to combat those hybrid cars with the silent engines.
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> were and if all others were able to depend on a reliable audible
>>>>>> signal
>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> let us know it is ok to cross, coupled with effective pedestrian
>>>>>> laws,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> hybrid cars would only present issues at areas with stop signs and
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> busy intersections. How did you infer that I suggested the audible
>>>>>> signs
>>>>>> could impact the safe use of a car? The safe driver makes that 
>>>>>> choice
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have yet to learn about a device that could ensure a drivers safe
>>>>>> operation
>>>>>> of a vehicle.
>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>>> who
>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:48 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Audible Traffic Signals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>>    Audible traffic signals have absolutely no effect on the safe
>>>>>> operation
>>>>>> of a vehicle. Now, in St. Petersburg, Florida, they have a pretty
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have a pedestrian crossing sign near the trafic signal. When a
>>>>>> pedestrian activates the crosswalk signal, a yellow light flashes
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sign to alert the driver that a pedestrian is crossing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:07 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now in reaction to the hybrid cars which are environmentally
>>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> very quiet, why are we not mobilizing the forces to require that
>>>>>>> urban
>>>>>>> planners and departments of roads or transportation or what ever
>>>>>>> department
>>>>>>> it is that regulates crossing signs start using audible crossing
>>>>>>> signs
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> done in many European cities. I hear tell of how the  infrastructure
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> old and to costly to work with, yet I would think that Paris and
>>>>>>> London
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> much older cities then any of ours and they some how were able to
>>>>>>> bridge
>>>>>>> that gap. Would be another great focus of our community to work
>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> effect if you ask me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the  one
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Jewel S.
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:33 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here, here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been hit by a car, albeit a very slow moving car, so I was
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> injured very much at all. The car was backing out of a parking spot
>>>>>>> after telling me to go ahead. He didn't look where he was going, and
>>>>>>> his bumper struck me before I knew what was going on. I beat the
>>>>>>> trunk
>>>>>>> with my cane and shouted at him, trying to scuttle out of the way
>>>>>>> (not
>>>>>>> easy for me), but he would not stop. I would have fallen if someone
>>>>>>> hadn't run up and caught me and another man knocked on the driver's
>>>>>>> window, the idiot. I told them to get the license plate number, but
>>>>>>> they did not. I was very upset. This was also a quiet car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Quiet Car Bill is something I have been watching very closely.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> is almost passed through to law. It is getting sooo close. When it
>>>>>>> does pass, the government will be required to do a survery and
>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>> out a way for quiet cars to produce the sound needed by pedestrians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am very sorry about the loss of your guide dog, friend, and the
>>>>>>> injury of your other friend. Your story is one of the many very real
>>>>>>> reasons why the White Cane Laws were ut in place in the first place,
>>>>>>> to save lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How many lives must be taken before the laws are enforced?
>>>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/24/10, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here here!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the 
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:07 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tracy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm so sorry!  I didn't know that had happened to you.  It must
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> awful for a long, long time after the fact.  And I'm sure whatever
>>>>>>> recourse
>>>>>>>> you received was not worth the loss.  I'm glad you're well and
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> living
>>>>>>>> your life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While I am glad the white cane laws and pedestrian laws  underlying
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> give me some added rights and protections.  Greater awareness and
>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>> enforcement does and will give us better odds of traveling safely
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> our daily lives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There will still be those people who disengage brain before turning
>>>>>>>> key,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> the more drivers who are aware of the law, of their
>>>>>>>> responsibilities
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> drivers, and of the consequences of their not taking their
>>>>>>> responsibilities
>>>>>>>> seriously when they're behind the wheel, the better off we'll all
>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:23 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could we possibly get back to discussing better enforcement of
>>>>>>>> White
>>>>>>>> Cane
>>>>>>>> laws, and drop all the sniping?  Or is it the concensus that the
>>>>>>>> White
>>>>>>>> Cane laws are outmoded, and we should just let them drop and ignore
>>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>>> I'm not asking for someone else to be responsible for my safety,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> asking that the drivers take their share of responsibility.  They
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> ones in charge of the vehicle that is a lot faster and heavier 
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am.
>>>>>>>> I am especially concerned with new quieter cars becoming more
>>>>>>>> common.
>>>>>>>> I've lost count of the times my dog has stopped short, then I've
>>>>>>>> heard
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> car whizzing by in front of us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I personally know 3 people who've been hit.  One was crossing  with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> light when a bus turned on top of her, and she was killed.  One was
>>>>>>>> crossing a quiet street, when some old fool came speeding around a
>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>> corner and hit her.  Now she has to use a wheelchair.  And one  was
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>> trying to cross a street to get home during an ice storm.  There
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> enough traffic, and there wasn't anyone around to ask, and I
>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>> misjudged the traffic light.  My dog was killed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Two of these accidents could have been avoided, if the driver were
>>>>>>>> paying
>>>>>>>> propper attention.  We have laws on the books that say they  should
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> particularly careful when a blind pedestrian is in the street.  I'd
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> to see greater awareness of those laws.  It doesn't seem so much to
>>>>>>>> ask,
>>>>>>>> to save a life.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
>>>>>>>> .net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>> .
>>>>>>>> org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
>>>>>> t
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> org
>>>>>>
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