[nagdu] Section 501(d)

Sun Mar 28 23:25:23 UTC 2010

Mike,
    I also believe, as I have advocated in our neighborhood, that better 
enforcement through a specific protocol, would go a long way toward making 
intersections safer for all pedestrians. I know that there are some 
communities in which there is very stringent enforcement and, as the result, 
very high compliance! In Florida, violating a pedestrians right-of-way is a 
moving violation that results in 3 points on the driver's Moving Violation 
Report and will result in higher insurance costs. Furthermore, citing one 
driver results in educating several more, as that driver will most likely 
tell others! Law enforcement in Hillsborough County is very open to 
suggestions and advocacy, as we are ranked #5 in the country for pedestrian 
fatalities!

marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)

Marion,

Right.  First, I gather the North-South traffic is not so light?  The
absence of traffic in a North-South direction may well be an indicator that
the signal is in your favor.

If you are not confident of this, an absence of any traffic certainly means
you may go because nothing is around you to endanger your walking.

Finally, your example may well be a justification for an audible signal.  I
am not suggesting opposition to these signals.  I only wish to make sure we
understand what they do and do not accomplish.  They do NOT inform us when
it is safe to cross a street.  We need to make sure they are installed for
the right reasons.

This may be splitting hairs to some, but if we do not use a request for
signal installation as another means of educating people about the real
needs of blind people we then either promulgate myths or we miss an
opportunity.

M.

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:01 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)

Michael,
    Merry and I have considered requesting an audible signal for the
intersection in our neighborhood. The intersection is a very busy one during

the day; however, in the early morning and late evenings, the east-west
traffic (which is the direction we are most likely to travel) is very light.

If there is a vehicle that approaches the intersection to activate the
signal for vehicular traffic, it may either be the only vehicle needing the
signal and/or may be turning left or right. This makes it very difficult to
know when the pedestrian signal has changed.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)

Dan,

I think you raise some good points and thank you for sending them to the
group.

As I said, the main issue, I think, is the perception that audible signals
make it "safe" for us to cross.  So long as we keep these signals in
prospective I think they have a place.

I would say that if you feel that even in simple intersections you find that
traffic movement is difficult to ascertain the signal isn't going to help.
It will tell you which way is suppose to be available for crossing, but
without listening for and hearing the traffic you will not have the
information you need to make a safe crossing.

Mike Hingson

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:20 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Section 501(d)

Hi, Albert and all.

Well, I'll give what I consider to be an objective analysis of audible
signals from my point of view.
I think the biggest problem is that the operation of these signals isn't
standardized and so each one is different.
How do you know which is the north south signal or the east west signal
unless you're familiar with an intersection?

I think they are useful in giving us information, the same information that
a sighted pedestrian has, whether there is a light r crossing sign that say
s "walk" or don't walk.
Since as blind people information is key to our success as safe travelers, I
think it's a good idea.
What you do with it is up to you.
When I lived in Maryland, a complicated intersection about 500 yards from my
apartment had an audible signal.
Yes, I did find it helpful, that is, once I figured out that the coo coo
chirp referred to the east west street I wanted to cross  and therefore, I
should listen for the chirp chirp, which meant I had a walk signal for the
other street, or something like that--smile.
Yes, guys, knowing when I had the light was helpful.  Doesn't mean my mind
automatically turned off and I didn't listen for traffic.
It is my person opinion that these signals should be available in a form
that pedestrians can activate on every lighted intersection in the country.

Also, and the supposedly perfect travelers out there are going to smirk at
this one, I am deaf in one ear and, travel skills or not, telling the
direction of traffic is a challenge.  The audible signal was a tangible
piece of info I could use and made it much more stress-free.

I think the biggest problem, as I said, is standardizing operation: will it
be a chirp, a voice saying " walk sign is on", a clicking noise? I've seen
all of these.  And, what about the activation and lack thereof? Where will
the button be, where will the cross-walk pole be?
Perhaps as a vibrant consumer organization, we the NFB could be giving
valuable consumer input on these questions rather than taking a firm line
and imputing lack of travel skills to those who might find this tool useful.
Finally, I've been to other countries where audible signals are much more
prevalent than here and the blind do find them helpful...yes, I know that's
a collective term, "the blind" and we're all individuals.

Now, I think someone mentioned that, when these systems are set up, there's
a big hoopla made about the blind now being able to cross streets.
Well, guys, you know that stereotypes abound and why should one more get our
dander up.
I've been at APS where I couldn't figure out which noise was for which sound
and ingenious passers-by asked why I wasn't crossing. When I explained, they
said "well, doesn't the signal tell you"--smile

Moderator, my apologies, but I thought I'd just add my honestly felt two
cents worth to this discussion.

Cordially,

Dan

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