[nagdu] APS, To use or not to use
Peter Donahue
pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net
Tue Mar 30 15:48:41 UTC 2010
Hello Jewell and everyone,
And that can be disabled should someone choose not to use the APS. This
is in compliance with Title V of the ADA. Like many Mary and I were taught
to cross using parallel traffic and commonly use this method for crossing
streets with or without Using the pedestrian walk cycle can buy a
pedestrian more time to cross a given street. Being able to choose to use or
not to use the APS when the walk cycle is activated would be something we
can live with. Here in San Antonio combatting gang violence and child abuse
are far bigger fish to fry than installing APS at all of our intersections
controlled by traffic signals.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
The thing is, though, that not every intersection needs an APPS, nor
would an APPS be used. Intersections that are very busy or not busy at
all, T-intersections, and perhaps round-abouts (We have quite a few
now in Raleigh, and they are a pain to go around). Streets with mild
constant traffic that has good traffic signals, streets with almost no
traffic where cars yield, and intersections where there is a lot of
foot traffic would not need an APPS. For example, in my city (Raleigh,
NC), Western Boulevard is a very busy road, but one where the traffic
signals go for long enough that it allows me to keep track of traffic
with no worry. An APPS at the intersection of Western and Gormon would
be wasted money that could be used to better the sidewalks or fix the
roads' many potholes. However, an APPS at the corner of Gormon and
Marcom, where there is plenty of traffic on Gormon, but little to no
traffic on Marcom, would be very helpful. I have had to stand there
for literally 10 minutes at a time, often longer, because I can't tell
when it's my turn to cross because of lack of traffic.
Really, about half to a quarter of all intersections could actually
benefit from an audible signal. The rest would be a waste of time and
money that could be used on sidewalks, more regular crosswalk signals
(that are helpful to even the blind, believe it or not), filling in
potholes in the road, and enforcing laws.
My two cents,
Jewel
On 3/30/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Albert,
> Perhaps you should re-read my post!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>
>
>>I find those figures hard to believe.73 million for one sign? Just sounds
>> off for some reason.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of David Baker
>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:26 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>
>> Hmm. I guess I'd rather have sidewalks than APS.
>>
>> David
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 7:06 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>
>> Dear All,
>> I once did a paper for the City of Tampa which was considering
>> installing
>> APS at all intersections in the city. I no longer have the exact data, as
>> it
>> was
>> on my previous computer. However, I do remember the figure for purchasing
>> the
>> necessary equipment for city-owned pedestrian signals was
>> $73 million. This does not include the installation and maitenance of the
>> APS
>> nor does it include those intersections controlled by the county or
>> state.
>> In
>> order to purchase the APS for all intersections in Hillsborough County
>> where
>> there are pedestrian signals, the price was $800 million, again, not
>> including
>> installation and maintenance.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>
>>
>>> Yes, you are exactly correct. Making cars emit a noise that will allow
>>> pedestrians (all pedestrians) to hear them will fall upon the car
>>> companies.
>>>
>>> As opposed to APSs that fall upon state and local governments, who are
>>> experiencing massive budget deficits across the country. Governments are
>>> being forced to furlough and layoff workers from California to New York.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>> Fax: (321) 256-8896
>>> Skype: jlyens
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Linda Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:26 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>>
>>> Julie,
>>> Why, yes - the car companies would have to dig into their PROFITS to
>>> create
>>> the sounds for the silent hybrids! LOL!!
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>>
>>>
>>>> Check out
>>>> http://www.nfb.org
>>>> I'm sure there will be links to read about the quiet car initiative.
>>>> and last I heard it was very close to having the support it needs to
>>> pass.
>>>>>From my perspective it seems that many politicians and the public are
>>> in
>>>> support, but the main opposition has come from the car manufacturers.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is an effective option for sure. but, truthfully, I cannot see
>>> the
>>>>> general public getting behind that one. Is there someplace I could go
>>> to
>>>>> find more information on this proposal so I could learn more about
>>> the
>>>>> efforts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Julie J
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:02 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] APS was White Cane laws
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>
>>>>> NFB is working diligently to pass legislation that would require that
>>>
>>>>> hybrid
>>>>>
>>>>> cars have some sort of sound even when they are operating at lower
>>>>> speeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I think this will be more effective than APS. If I can
>>> hear
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> car no matter where it is I will be able to take appropriate action
>>> in a
>>>>> parking lot, side street, country road or where ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> JMHO
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:07 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now in reaction to the hybrid cars which are environmentally
>>> friendly
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> very quiet, why are we not mobilizing the forces to require that
>>> urban
>>>>>> planners and departments of roads or transportation or what ever
>>>>>> department
>>>>>> it is that regulates crossing signs start using audible crossing
>>> signs
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> done in many European cities. I hear tell of how the infrastructure
>>> is
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> old and to costly to work with, yet I would think that Paris and
>>> London
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> much older cities then any of ours and they some how were able to
>>> bridge
>>>>>> that gap. Would be another great focus of our community to work
>>> together
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> effect if you ask me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Jewel S.
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:33 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here, here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been hit by a car, albeit a very slow moving car, so I was
>>> not
>>>>>> injured very much at all. The car was backing out of a parking spot
>>>>>> after telling me to go ahead. He didn't look where he was going, and
>>>>>> his bumper struck me before I knew what was going on. I beat the
>>> trunk
>>>>>> with my cane and shouted at him, trying to scuttle out of the way
>>> (not
>>>>>> easy for me), but he would not stop. I would have fallen if someone
>>>>>> hadn't run up and caught me and another man knocked on the driver's
>>>>>> window, the idiot. I told them to get the license plate number, but
>>>>>> they did not. I was very upset. This was also a quiet car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Quiet Car Bill is something I have been watching very closely.
>>> It
>>>>>> is almost passed through to law. It is getting sooo close. When it
>>>>>> does pass, the government will be required to do a survery and
>>> figure
>>>>>> out a way for quiet cars to produce the sound needed by pedestrians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am very sorry about the loss of your guide dog, friend, and the
>>>>>> injury of your other friend. Your story is one of the many very real
>>>>>> reasons why the White Cane Laws were ut in place in the first place,
>>>>>> to save lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many lives must be taken before the laws are enforced?
>>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/24/10, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Here here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>> who
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:07 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm so sorry! I didn't know that had happened to you. It must
>>> have
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> awful for a long, long time after the fact. And I'm sure whatever
>>>>>> recourse
>>>>>>> you received was not worth the loss. I'm glad you're well and
>>> still
>>>>>> living
>>>>>>> your life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I am glad the white cane laws and pedestrian laws underlying
>>> them
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> give me some added rights and protections. Greater awareness and
>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>> enforcement does and will give us better odds of traveling safely
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> our daily lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There will still be those people who disengage brain before turning
>>>
>>>>>>> key,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the more drivers who are aware of the law, of their
>>> responsibilities as
>>>>>>> drivers, and of the consequences of their not taking their
>>>>>> responsibilities
>>>>>>> seriously when they're behind the wheel, the better off we'll all
>>> be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:23 AM
>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] White Cane laws
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could we possibly get back to discussing better enforcement of
>>> White
>>>>>>> Cane
>>>>>>> laws, and drop all the sniping? Or is it the concensus that the
>>> White
>>>>>>> Cane laws are outmoded, and we should just let them drop and ignore
>>>
>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>> I'm not asking for someone else to be responsible for my safety,
>>> but I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> asking that the drivers take their share of responsibility. They
>>> are
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> ones in charge of the vehicle that is a lot faster and heavier than
>>> I
>>>>>>> am.
>>>>>>> I am especially concerned with new quieter cars becoming more
>>> common.
>>>>>>> I've lost count of the times my dog has stopped short, then I've
>>> heard
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> car whizzing by in front of us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I personally know 3 people who've been hit. One was crossing with
>>> the
>>>>>>> light when a bus turned on top of her, and she was killed. One was
>>>>>>> crossing a quiet street, when some old fool came speeding around a
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> corner and hit her. Now she has to use a wheelchair. And one was
>>> me,
>>>>>>> trying to cross a street to get home during an ice storm. There
>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> enough traffic, and there wasn't anyone around to ask, and I
>>> probably
>>>>>>> misjudged the traffic light. My dog was killed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two of these accidents could have been avoided, if the driver were
>>>>>>> paying
>>>>>>> propper attention. We have laws on the books that say they should
>>> be
>>>>>>> particularly careful when a blind pedestrian is in the street. I'd
>>>
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to see greater awareness of those laws. It doesn't seem so much to
>>>
>>>>>>> ask,
>>>>>>> to save a life.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>> for
>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>> cast
>>>>>>> .net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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