[nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full BodyScanning Machines

Sun Nov 21 00:20:24 UTC 2010

Orlando International according to what I have read and heard is giving you 
the choice of either the full body scan or the pat-down.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full BodyScanning 
Machines

Folks,

The full body scanner has room for a person only.  The TSA recognizes that
guide dog users have various techniques for going through security.  We have
seen the same thing on this list.  Some drop the leash and harness and go
through the detector and only then call their guides through.  Some use a
long leash.  Some use non metallic leashes and remove the harnesses.

TSA agents have been instructed not to seperate guides from their owners.
If I, however, choose to drop the leash, walk through the detector without
continuing to have contact with Africa, and then call her it becomes my
decision.  Also, walking through the detector is not the same as being put
in a full body scanner where I can't instantly regain control over Africa if
I need to do so.  TSA agents will NOT take any responsibility for our guide
dogs.  I think they are trying to adopt the most respectful and all
incompusing policy they can.

I suppose one could request a full body scan should more detailed screenings
be necessary.  However, it may go against the policy as it now stands with
the TSA.

I have to emphasize again that these newer devices today mainly are used
when the TSA determines more detailed screenings are necessary.  This
happens mostly when passengers going through the regular process set off the
detectors.  I understand that in the future everyone may be required to be
subjected to more detailed screens which would naturally mostly use full
body scanners to save time.  We are not there yet.

My wife who has used a wheelchair her entire life will never have to go
through the full body scanner as there is too much metal on her chair to
permit a good scan.  She has been use to pretty detailed searches whenever
she travels already.  If you were to ask her if she feels discriminated
against for not being able to use the new scanners she would say that she
does not feel so.

Let's not look for trouble where it really doesn't exist.

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
 "Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning
Machines

Well, Ginger said that this is because there is not room for it to do that
width--dog and person--same being true with the wheelchair.

On Nov 20, 2010, at 3:38 PM, William ODonnell wrote:

> Why are guide dog users not able to use the full body machines?  Why does
the TSA state this?
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 11/20/10, Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Brenda <bjnite at windstream.net>
>> Subject: [nagdu] Some clarification really neededRe: Full Body Scanning
Machines
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 3:49 PM
>> Hi List
>> I could tolerate the full body scanner, but I really don't
>> want to get
>> groped/patted down in the manner it is currently
>> done.  I am considering
>> getting a guide dog when other personal issues are
>> resolved, but the
>> thought that all people with service animals will not be
>> using the full
>> body scanner bothers me.   I am totally
>> against the patdown and there is
>> no guarantee I would not be the lucky random winner even
>> with no metal
>> on my person.
>>
>> Are there clear rules somewhere that we can read and print
>> out for
>> travel?  Is there any provision for a situation like
>> described above?
>> If they say I can't use the full body scanner and I refuse
>> a patdown
>> what happens then?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Brenda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2010 3:09 PM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>>> Hi Ginger,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification. We'll be ready for the
>> same ole thing then!
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>>
>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:32 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>
>>> Dear Cathryn,
>>>
>>> The TSA will not allow people traveling with service
>> animals to
>>> use the Whole Body Imaging machines.
>>>
>>> If you have a service animal, you must use the metal
>> detector as
>>> you have in the past. You do not have a choice.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ginger
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette
>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:22 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>
>>> Hi Gary,
>>>
>>> Since I posted someone else pointed out that we won't
>> be able to
>>> leave the dogs on a leash due to the full scanner.
>> That means we
>>> need to work with them to sit/stay even off leash.
>> I've started
>>> reinforcing that already with Abby so we will be
>> ready. It seems
>>> to me to be a gradual change to add into normal
>> obedience. I was
>>> using a short stay command with a long leash, so now I
>> just
>>> unclip the leash and step away as though the leash was
>> still in
>>> place, use the hand gesture, step back to my dog, and
>> praise her
>>> like crazy for doing such a great job of staying. When
>> we fly
>>> next, she'll be prepared to sit/stay for a short time
>> while I
>>> step through a scanner, then come to me when I call
>> her even
>>> though there is no restraining leash.
>>> Well, that is my plan.  Interested in your
>> thoughts as well.
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>>
>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 2:27 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I just flew with Bogart a couple of weeks ago.
>> Considering that
>>> my only other flight was back from guide school we did
>> great.
>>> Okay, I'll be honest.
>>> I was actually surprised about how good Bogart was. We
>> don't work
>>> on staying as much as we should but I got him to the
>> portal (as
>>> someone called it), got him to sit and told him to
>> stay while I
>>> walked through the metal detector.
>>> Once done, with no beeping, I called him and he came
>> right to me.
>>> So this helps me realize how important it is to work
>> on our
>>> common commands to keep him strong at them.
>>>
>>> At xmas I'll be flying to one of the airports where
>> the body
>>> scanners are being testede in canada so we'll see if
>> that is any
>>> differnt.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Cathryn Bonnette<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:47 am
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>>> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>
>>>> Hi Mike and All -
>>>>
>>>> Can't resist chiming in here. True, you don't
>> choose how they
>>> proceed,
>>>> but you definitely have influence. Are these TSA
>> agents looking
>>> for
>>>> ways to hassle blind people? Generally no. Also,
>> they have a
>>> job to
>>>> do, and they are busy. Is there a reason you
>> cannot trust your
>>> dog to
>>>> sit and stay on command for the short time it
>> takes you to walk
>>>> through a scanner? If your answer is "yes", it is
>> time to go
>>> back to
>>>> the daily obedience 101 that most training
>> programs suggest
>>> because
>>>> SIT and Stay are very basic commands your dog
>> should perform
>>> despite
>>>> distractions. Your task is to hold the long leash
>> low so it
>>> doesn't
>>>> set off the alarm as you walk through without your
>> dog.  As
>>> many of
>>>> you have already enjoyed sharing, our dogs
>> absolutely love
>>> those
>>>> patdowns, and want more of
>> them!   Besides conducting
>>>> ourselves as adult
>>>> professionals who know what we're doing, That is
>> another great
>>> way to
>>>> connect with the agents who otherwise are having a
>> stressful,
>>> or
>>>> boring day depending on the alert level.
>>>> It doesn't have to be traumatic- it can be a way
>> to show off.
>>>> What do you
>>>> think?
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn (&  Abby, also a lover of
>> patdowns)
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Michael Hingson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:27 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>>
>>>> You may not have the choice.  They decide how
>> to examine you.
>>>>
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>    "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
>> topics and
>>> speaking
>>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>> Thunder Dog is
>>> now
>>>> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
>>>>
>>>
>> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
>>> =1-3
>>>>
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:52 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>>
>>>> I would not use the scanner.  I trust my dog
>> but want to be
>>> where he
>>>> can see
>>>>
>>>> me and I can speak to him.
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson"<mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Margo is correct in that holding a long leash may
>> not set off
>>> the
>>>> traditional detector so long as the leash stays
>> below the
>>> scanning
>>>> element.
>>>> It will NOT work with the full body scanner
>> system.  If you are
>>> chosen
>>>> for a more detailed scan and can either use the
>> body scanner or
>>> are
>>>> subjected to a more rigorous patdown, you could
>> only use the
>>> body
>>>> scanner if you trust your dog to stay while you
>> independently
>>> go into
>>>> the scanner.
>>>>
>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>    "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking
>> topics and
>>> speaking
>>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>> Thunder Dog is
>>> now
>>>> availe for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-
>>>>
>>>
>> Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr
>>> =1-3
>>>>
>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:23 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>>
>>>> Cathryn, that will work for metal detectors but
>> probably not
>>> for the
>>>> full body scans--that's a different thing.
>>>>
>>>> margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cathryn Bonnette"<cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>>>> Users'"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning Machines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> All:
>>>>>
>>>>> One approach is to put your guide on a long
>> leash sitting at
>>>> the beginning
>>>>> of the walk thru metal detector/scanner. After
>> you walk
>>>> through without
>>>>> your
>>>>> dog holding the leash, you give the "Come"
>> command to
>>>> demonstrate that you
>>>>> alone did not set off the detector, and that
>> the dog harness
>>>> does. Then
>>>>> one
>>>>> of the transit authority staff will wand the
>> dog or pat
>>>> him/her down while
>>>>> you stay close and keep your hands on the dog.
>> Done deal. It
>>>> is fairly
>>>>> simple, and shouldn't change that much with
>> full scanners.
>>>>> At least that is my experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cathryn (&  Abby)
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nagdu-
>>>> bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:48 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Full Body Scanning
>> Machines
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't only selected victims, I mean,
>> passengers, get the
>>> full-body
>>>>> radiation treatment? Maybe you won't get
>> picked.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know what the rules are for
>> blind people with
>>>> canes or dogs
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> that the full body machine has been
>> installed in most
>>>> airports? What do
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> do with the dog while we're being scanned?
>> or do we have to
>>>> submit to the
>>>>>> more intrusive patdown?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Toni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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