[nagdu] Regarding guide dogs, airports and security

Fri Nov 26 10:12:55 UTC 2010

Brenda,
    I have not seen a full body scanner, so I am not sure why those of us 
who use service animals cannot use them. I have contact with a DOT attorney, 
so I will ask her for more clarification on this.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users
National Federation of the Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://NAGDU.ORG


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Regarding guide dogs, airports and security


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Brenda
> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:58 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Regarding guide dogs, airports and security
>
> The issue that is guide dog related is that no matter what full body
> scanner they have, a person with a service dog is not allowed to use the
> full body  scanner and must go through the very invasive pat down (aka
> groping).
>
> This is very important information for me as a prospective guide dog
> user as I will have to choose between getting a guide dog or flying on
> air planes.  What I would like to see is a work around so people using
> service animals can use the full body scanner so as not to be touched.
> Couldn't we use a bed chain (not sure the proper term) to secure the
> service animFor the most part, the dog will get a pat down, unless you 
> beep
> or are randomly selected which is rare that I have that happen.
> Jordanal in order to go through the full body scanner?  At
> present, this is  not an option.  Is this something the NFB can advocate
> for so we can have the same option of not being touched invasively as a
> person who does not use a service dog.
>
> For now, I have to choose between a service animal and air travel.  I
> sure hope they don't get as strict on trains or buses or else I will be
> really stuck.
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/25/2010 2:46 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>> It is my understanding that there is a "second generation" of the
>> full-body scanner machines, used in Europe that show stick figures.
>> It seems to me that everybody is going to have to give a little on
>> this one, I mean everybody -- not blind persons.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:00 PM 11/25/2010, you wrote:
>>> Well said David.
>>>
>>> I realize the pat downs are invasive and may be obnixous to some.
>>> However,
>>> some inconvenience and a bit of invasion is the price we all must pay
>>> for
>>> security.
>>>
>>> We already know the media is making this into a much bigger fremzy
>>> than it
>>> needs to be.  I have been through the process and will again as I must
>>> travel for my work.  I would like to use the full body scan, but such
>>> is not
>>> to be the case and I choose not to argue the point.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hingson
>>>
>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>  "Speaking with Vision"
>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>> (415) 827-4084
>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
>>> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>>> Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>
> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_
>
>>>
>>> 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>>>
>>>
>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:55 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] airports and security
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we should not ask for any kind of special
>>> treatment -- simply because we are blind.  Maybe that isn't what you
>>> are saying -- but some will ask for it.  After all, one of the
>>> masterminds of the first World Trade Center attempt, in the 90's was
>>> blind as I recall.
>>>
>>> There isn't an easy answer -- someone had explosives in their shoes,
>>> so the shoe thing, then the underwear.  There isn't much left, except
>>> to hide explosives inside yourself, as some apparently do with drugs.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 11:11 AM 11/25/2010, you wrote:
>>> >Michael,
>>> >
>>> >I am not opposed to the heightened security. What I am opposed to is
>>> the
>>> way
>>> >the pat downs are done, and how violating they are. Feeling between
>>> my legs
>>> >in very very private areas, looking down my underwear,  is just not
>>> right
>>> to
>>> >me. Yes someone posing to be blind, and in a wheelchair could have
>>> tried to
>>> >get a bomb on the plane, but. But. But. With that said. I would like
>>> >profiling to be done. If I fly, and TSA sees that I am a blind
>>> person, with
>>> >a vailded ID, all my information checks out, I am who I say I am.
>>> Sure put
>>> >me through security, make me go through the metal detector. But do not
>>> treat
>>> >me like I am a terrorist or a criminal. I know terrorism is a real
>>> threat.
>>> >And I agree that what happened on 911 was horrible and should have
>>> never
>>> >happened. I had close friends die in the towers. But there HAS. To be a
>>> >better way.
>>> >
>>> >Just my opinion.
>>> >
>>> >Marsha
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> >Of Michael Hingson
>>> >Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 3:20 PM
>>> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] airports and security
>>> >
>>> >Hi,
>>> >
>>> >I am sorry for your experience.  However, you know you are blind,
>>> and using
>>> >a wheelchair.  How does the TSA know that?  Also, how do they know you
>>> >aren't targeted and either willingly or forced to carry an explosive
>>> device?
>>> >
>>> >The fact is they cannot know these things.  Please keep this in
>>> prospective.
>>> >Invasive the pat downs may be, but, speaking as someone who was in the
>>> World
>>> >Trade Center on 9-11, the alternative of not being more secure and
>>> checking
>>> >is worse.
>>> >
>>> >Do you think for one moment there wouldn't be a tremendous outcry if
>>> even
>>> >one aircraft explodes  due to a lack of security?  The present
>>> measures are
>>> >the lesser of two evils by far.
>>> >
>>> >The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>> >  "Speaking with Vision"
>>> >Michael Hingson, President
>>> >(415) 827-4084
>>> >info at michaelhingson.com
>>> >To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
>>> >availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
>>> >Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
>>>
>>http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr
>
>>>
>>> _
>>> >1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> >http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> >Of Marsha Drenth
>>> >Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:32 AM
>>> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> >Subject: [nagdu] airports and security
>>> >
>>> >Hi folks,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Monday, my hubby and I flew to Texas for thanksgiving. I did not
>>> have my
>>> >pup with me, as last Thursday, I fell yet again, and sprained my
>>> ankle and
>>> >tore a ligament in my leg. So I am on crutches and wearing a splint,
>>> >probably for at least 2 weeks. So I used a wheelchair to go through
>>> >security. Well lets just say, my experience was not pleasant. I was
>>> subject
>>> >to the pat down. The pat down was with another female in a private
>>> room.
>>> >Lets just say that my personal space was totally violated. Their
>>> hands went
>>> >in areas that a stranger is not suppose to go. I felt so dirty and
>>> >disgusting after wards. I saw all the reports on the news, facebook and
>>> >twitter, about women being vilated through security checks, and I
>>> didn't
>>> >believe them, or atleast I wanted to give them the benefit of doubt.
>>> But
>>> >they are true. By the time it was all over, I was crying. I set off
>>> alarms
>>> >twice, from different parts of body being swabbed. So then they had
>>> to go
>>> >through all my stuff and my husbands. I can't imagine what it would
>>> have
>>> >been like if I had gone through with my dog. It took us 45 minutes
>>> to get
>>> >through security. I know, I know, I know what you all are saying, the
>>> >security is there to protect us. But come on people, me, a totally
>>> blind,
>>> >hearing impaired, sprained ankle sort of  person in a wheelchair is the
>>> >least likely person to do anything. Hell I can't even walk at the
>>> moment.
>>> >The people being targeted for the pat downs are the people like
>>> elderly,
>>> the
>>> >disabled, and children. I know we can't be too careful, but there
>>> has to be
>>> >a better way.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >This was just my experience. If anyone else wants to hear more graphic
>>> >details, email me off list.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >I know this is off topic, and not talking about guide dogs, but
>>> since I am
>>> a
>>> >guide dog user, thought I would share my comments and experiences.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Marsha
>>
>>
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